2nd DNA results out until May 15

Herald-Sun ^ | Apr 23, 2006 | KELLY HINCHCLIFFE

[JLS]

Yep, that FNC hostess was worried this story would slip through their fingers. HE MUST HAVE SOMETHING MORE.

I would like to be their and say to her, he does have something more you twit, a primary election.

[Dukie07]

Showing my ignorance, or naivete, here. Does someone who has taken the "date rape" drug remember? I thought there was no memory of events? Did I dream that? (haha) No joke intended....

[sissyjane]

I read it as well Peach. There were two people at the party other than Lacrosse players.

[Peach]

I wonder why; it just makes no sense. Unless they were black and then could be immediately eliminated.

[Locomotive Breath]

Mangum said it was lacrosse players and Nifong was too stupid to think outside that box.

[sissyjane]

I think I must have gone over to the dark side.....I was cheering Mickie Sherman, and I can't stand him under normal circumstances.

Someone pinch me!!

[Perdogg]

"According to a University of Florida drug hotline, "Roofies" are often combined with alcohol, marijuana, or cocaine to produce a rapid and very dramatic "high". Even when used by itself, users can appear extremely intoxicated, with slurred speech, no coordination, swaying, and blood-shot eyes...with no odor of alcohol. The drug has been added to punch and other drinks at fraternity parties and college social gatherings, where it is reportedly given to female party participants in hopes of lowered inhibitions and facilitating potential sexual conquest. Police departments in several parts of the country say that after ingestion of "Roofies" that several young women have reported waking up in frat houses with no clothes on, finding themselves in unfamiliar surroundings with unfamiliar people, or having actually been sexually assaulted while under the influence of the drug. "

http://www.emergency.com/roofies.htm

[RecallMoran]

I understand that you are correct -- date rape drugs are amnesiacs. That is the point, the victim gets loopy and cannot remember what happened. Personally, any dirtball using them should go to prison for a long time. We are all speculating for a rational explanation for why Nifong is taking illogical and seemingly indefensible positions. There may not be a rational explanation, other than he let his rhetoric get ahead of the evidence and found himself in a position where he had to indict for political reasons.

If either of those indicted are acquitted or charges dismissed, the whole case is dead. At this point, Nifong will make a judge dismiss the charges. This gets more interesting if Nifong is bounced out of office.

[Dukie07]

How much contact does it take to have another's dna under one's fingernails? If fingernails were missing in the early photos, I have to wonder why. Seems odd to show up "for work" in that condition. So, did some type of contact take place either before or in the early stages of the "dance" that might have caused loss of nails/gain of dna? I would really like to have a sample of Kimmy's dna to test against.

[abb]

Here's a possible scenario for the future. And this is only my speculatio, FWIW.

Nifong knows the defense can't let this ever get to jury deliberation. A Durham jury could convict, no matter the exculpatory evidence.

Thererefore, the defense will challenge every thing it can up front: linesup, evidence admissability, etc. But all this takes time and in the meanwhile theres no resolution. I.E. they're guility until proved innocent.

Assuming Nifong can get past May 2, he's still DA and in the spotlight. If the case is thrown out on technicality, he can say he was outspent on lawyers and can salvage his career.

What about civil suits by the allege perps against the DA, Durham, etc? By the time it gets to that, they may be too tired of it all and want it just go away.

What say y'all?

[mystery-ak]

I'm trying to catch up tonight....I saw the Newsweek reporterette saying that there may be a date rape drup...then Micky Sherman hit it out of the park imho.....I am curious about these so-called tox reports.....

[JLS]

I don't know either, but I think you raise a good point and think you are right. Date rape drugs are usually reported as causing people not to remember what happened to them.

If this were a reasonable case invovling a date rape drug:

1. Name calling would not enter the matter.

2. The victim would not remember specifically but would have a vague feeling of something bad had happened.

3. Her coworker would remember as she did not drink her drink and would be the ID witness not the one claiming something bad happened but I don't know by whom.

4. There would be no story of fighting and scratching at rapists.

[sissyjane]

Who's Jason?

[JLS]

I am curious about these so-called tox reports.....
________________________________________________

I am too, but one reason he might not have leaked them is that the strippers showed evidence of usage of grass, crack and some date rape drug? How will that play on the stand?

[Locomotive Breath]

I don't know the detaisl of DNA testing. Under fingernails does not seem to me as big a deal as DNA...er....um...elsewhere. I have no trouble believing that there was some minor physical altercation between the strippers and the players.

I would really like to have a sample of Kimmy's dna to test against.

Well you can go collect it. I ain't touchin' her.

[schooter]

Who's Jason?

Jason Bissey, the neighbor who says he saw the women come and go, as well as overheard the racial slurs.

[darbymcgill]

TK, A few new items of note in the article.. some I hadn't heard yet... Sorry this is so long....

One, I have heard many times without dispute is that Duke bought up many of the houses in the area and were going to sell them only to people that they "approved" of. I wonder how many fair housing violations they have to commit before they get them all sold to the "right" people...

Now.. on to the good stuff...

According to Roberts, who was interviewed last week by NEWSWEEK, the boys gave each of them mixed drinks. Roberts says she did not drink hers, but the other dancer did, knocking her cup over after finishing half her drink, then imbibing Roberts's.

First, according to her ex she doesn't drink... hee hee.. second she was offered a drink, got half way through it and for some reason spilled the rest. After spilling her drink she takes Kim's (supposedly untouched) and swills it down. Now, depending on the time frame.. If she was just a bit drunk when she got there and she swills a couple of drinks after she gets there, in 20 - 30 minutes she could easily be fall down drunk....

Roberts said that she thought the other woman arrived sober. But when the two began their strip show around midnight, the other woman began having trouble.

This gives us some clue that maybe they arrived some time before midnight... This casts doubt on Bissey's version... But this still indicates that nothing has happened dance wise or rape wise before midnight...

The dance lasted about 10 minutes, according to Roberts;

That statement gets us to 12:10... a bit later than the 12:04 we had before...

She told NEWSWEEK that she yelled out at the boys, "I called the cops, you dumbasses."

So if she called the cops before she sped off, then that means that CAB #2 had to arrive at or a bit after 12:53, not before as I speculated earlier. Or (doubtful) everyone hid when they found out the cops were coming, she left, then the cops came at 12:55 and left at 1:06, at which time the 20 guys reappeared and Kim, still P.O'd comes back about the time CAB #2 arrives at 1:07 to yell some more at those still hanging around, one of which was the guy who said "she's just a stripper"... Doesn't really make sense, but what else about this case makes sense... That would make more sense though about interval between first leaving and arriving at Kroger's.

At first, Roberts says she did not think the other dancer had been raped. She was mad at the other stripper, who was almost passed out in the car and not talking. Roberts said she had not collected all the money owed them for the dance, and she wondered if the other dancer was somehow hustling her.

Justifies her taking the AV's money.... Like we didn't already know that... But if she didn't get her money, she would have been the one "ripped off", there wouldn't be any need for her to say "they ripped themselves off"

The police arrived and radioed back to the dispatcher that the woman was "passed-out drunk" but otherwise appeared unharmed.

After 2 probably very strong drinks in less than an hour (probably less than 30 minutes) plus what she had before she got there, who would be surprised she was "passed-out drunk".

Police logs show that the woman was taken to the Duke hospital at 2:31 a.m., after a stop at a substance-abuse center, and that she claimed she had been raped.

As Gomer would say..... Surprise, Surprise, Surprise...

It is not clear what she told them, or whether her statement to police matches her later statements to NEWSWEEK and other media outlets.

Well it certainly is clear to some of us folks here a FR... She's already admitted she changed her story (mind) more than once... for example Williams asked if she believed there had been a rape, and Roberts answered no but now its... Roberts says she changed her mind about whether the other woman had been raped. (She is careful to say that her version of events has not changed—just her opinion of what might have happened when the woman was out of her sight.) She was affected by news of the medical report. She had not noticed any swelling in the face of the other woman, but her lawyer told her that facial swelling often takes a couple of hours to show.

A great big HUH?

I won't even address the statements between her and her lawyer... thanks again for the link....

[mystery-ak]

It's too bad this 2nd stripper didn't have a tox test done on her that night.....I'm sure if any of those tox tests come back positive for any drug, it will be blamed on the boys...

[Dukie07]

I must admit that I have had the thought that everyone involved would wish it would "just go away." (Well, maybe not Kimmie.) You said earlier, " Nifong's dug himself in too deep to back out. He read his own press clippings early on and talked himself into a dead end alley. Human nature is such that he cannot admit he screwed up. He'll ride it down into the ground..." I think that goes for AV, too. In an effort to protect herself from..who knows what...she concocted the story. Nifong, opportunistic jerk that he seems, ran with it. Kimmy found a way to possibly cash in. What a mess.

As reality has hit, the question is how to best extricate oneself from the mess. Concerned about the backlash once the case is dismissed, as someone earlier mentioned, the prudent thing to do is to wait until the semester is over (although, summer school students will still be around).

Meanwhile, the players get royally scr***d.