Posted on 04/21/2006 9:35:10 AM PDT by Al Gator
Fatal shooting pits tribe against police The Ramapoughs call it murder. Authorities say it was justified.
By Wayne Parry Associated Press
MAHWAH, N.J. - The gathering started, as it does each spring, with members of the Ramapough Lenape Indian tribe meeting for a cookout and a day in the Bergen County woods, celebrating the warming weather and the beauty of the earth.
The April 1 outing ended with one of the tribe members mortally wounded, shot three times by a state park police officer who had told them that they were not allowed to ride their all-terrain vehicles in the area.
The death 10 days later of Emil Mann, 45, of Monroe, N.Y., has tensions running high, with the tribe decrying years of bias, state officials pleading for calm, and a grand jury investigating whether the shooting of the unarmed man was justified.
"It's murder," said Rodney Van Dunk, a cousin of the tribal chief. "Even a bear doesn't get shot three times."
But the attorney for rookie Officer Chad Walder said his client had used deadly force because he feared Mann was trying to grab his gun.
"He feels terrible about what he had to do," lawyer Robert Galantucci said. "He was ambushed, and he had to protect himself and his lieutenant."
The facts of the shooting on Stag Hill, about 27 miles northwest of Manhattan, are in dispute. Authorities contend that four state park police officers were patrolling near Ramapo Mountain State Forest when one saw Otis Mann, a cousin of the dead man, riding an ATV and asked him to stop. Otis Mann then rode away.
About 20 minutes later, officials said, Lt. Kelly Gottheiner saw Otis Mann and said she planned to arrest him.
(Excerpt) Read more at philly.com ...
Which justifies criminal behavior now?
If the officer had been killed, would you say to his family, "oh well, we took his land, he had a right to try and kill a cop"?
I didn't realize we had racial apologists here at FR.
Be careful here. There may have been NO criminal behaviour here.
Read the article carefully. There is a question about the treaty that the Ramapoughs have with the COUNTY, and the state.
That's why this will get a thorough investigation.
Could it be that people who are treated differently get used to lauding it over those lessers, even the lessers authority figures? I wish I could hunt, fish, do whatever I desire all the time and anywhere just because of my ancestors. Indians who desire the tribal life should be restricted to the tribal land and should have a visa and be subject to visitors rules to visit the U.S.
While their criminal behavior was not justified, we can't be sure that the officer was in any danger. We've now been told two different stories of what actually happened, and the truth is probably somewhere in between. Hopefully the investigation will get to the bottom of this.
Just early stages of eminent domain.
For the rangers to escalate the situation because of ATV riding is pretty lame. From the article it sounds like egos ruled the day.
Goggle: Jackson Whites for a history. 'Jacks' were a slang term referring to freed blacks at the time. Also another theory part of the ancestry was from jamaican women captured to serve as , well, you know, to revolutionary soldiers in the area.
But, its more profitable to be an Indian nation these days.
Always assume the cops are lying, because they usually are.
I don't know the whole of the treaty. I THINK the Ramapoughs are recognized owners of that portion of the Bergen COUNTY park, and that park is administered by the state and county.
But I THINK that the treaty states that the park is in fact Ramapough reservation.
I'd like someone who really knows to answer.
I DO know that the tribe has been gathering there, and riding ATVs, for decades.
"While their criminal behavior was not justified,"
Again, be careful, their behaviour may very well have not been criminal.
I think that the Ramapough are recognized as a Lenape tribe. Not sure. But if they are, they date way back.
Correct, let me rephrase that:
"While any alleged criminal behavior would not be justified..."
Clearly the area was a major Indian settlement, no doubt. 'Mahwah' is Lenape for meeting place. I am saying these people are not necc. desendants of Indian tribes just because they are there. Any more than I am because I lived there. (Actually I'm from the Dutch settles side...)
"Why not shoot in the air once to stop him?"
Maybe because LEO are trained to discharge their weapons ONLY when using DEADLY force is neccessary.
They also don't trick shot the guns out of criminal's hands or "kneecap" them so they don't run away.
He 's been watching too much TV.
I was on the freeway the other day and was directed off by a patrolman. It was a detour due to construction. I did not challange the patrolman, even though I had full legal rights to drive there. I guess I could have challanged him, forced escalation to the point he had to shoot me. I chose not to. That is why we have courts, and an Indian should feel REAL GOOD going to court against a white eyed devil.
Ditto, cops are given a pass everyday for their actions, for which you and I would be looking at filtered sunlight for a lesser crime. When it comes to government at all levels, my mindset is hardening into a them and us context.
The area, which really is not large, used to be owned by the catholic church. What wasn't, was and is own by 'the tribe'.
When I was a kid a little know secret was you could get access to fish on the church's property, but had to go see the monsenior for a pass. Once on the grounds, usually the only people you saw was from the 'tribe'. Scarey in looks. Scarey because they packed weapons.
The church sold off a lot of land to the state, used to create the Ramapo Reservation (Park). Other acres were used to expand Ramapo college.
Don't confuse 'reservation' with indian reservation. Bottom line: Once church owned, now state owned. What's not, was and is private land owned by individuals of the 'tribe'.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.