Posted on 04/19/2006 9:33:10 PM PDT by Howlin
I read some place that the captains left off Seigelman's name. With that many there, it would take questioning more than just the captains to get a complete list.
It is curious as to why the players did not want to say that the dancer entered the 2nd time. A nosey neighbor witnessed quite a bit and approximate times upon the dancers arriving, leaving, and drinking in the yard earlier in the day. If you can clear your name, why not do that and finish out the school year? If there is not enough evidence to go to trial, the charges will be dropped. Keep in mind the media, doesn't have all the facts. It's not an issue of proving innocence. Did a rape occur? I thought I saw something about more details--where the victim stopped fighting and performed oral on Seigelman and Finnerty did the rape and sodomy. The defense will ask Did she have the energy to bite what was in her mouth? Did you scream for help? Why not? I can see Seigelman's girlfriend being asked if she was facialized by Reade--objection--Sustained. How big was this bathroom any way for four people to be in it at one time? Was the door open or closed? Was it closed the whole time or part of the time? Were the lights on or off? If this goes to trial, she will be asked all of those questions... Did you read that Finnerty has been arrested before too? So the accuser stole a car, and Finnerty has beat up a couple people.
You don't know much about the USA of today. In the US, guilt or innocence depends totally on whether the da, judge, and jury likes you or not.
And given you registration date of today, you are probably a DU troll.
Staytrue wrote:
And given you registration date of today, you are probably a DU troll.
I like that grammar.
GG
I didn't say that all the details of this case & the list of attendees should be released to the public. I meant share all with the DA and attorneys. The captains provided an incomplete list when asked. And I agree a lot more info has been released that should be contained to the courts. Isn't it odd that someone runs outside and takes a photo of this dancer trying to get back in for her shoe? She has her purse with her that she is searching through, in the photo...Why not just throw her shoe out to her and be done with it? This case is by far one of the biggest in the media. And so you know--Yes, I knew about the saliva DNA and who provided it. To clarify---if I was asked to give DNA, I would have provided saliva, sperm, nails, all types of hair and they could have scratched my skin and put it on a slide. I have been following this case daily since it hit the media.
As for the date rape drug self-administered....let me share some info on the date-rape drug..And unlike some people, I am clearly not professing myself to be an expert on any topic related to this case...But if you are entertaining the idea of a date rape drug, it's not a matter of proving if one of the arrested gave it to her--if it's found in her system , why was it in her? I don't believe anyone is going to say the drug was given after she left. Both the players and Kim said she was sluggish when she left. She was incoherent, and couldn't tell Kim where she lived. Why? How intoxicated would you have to be before you cant provide your address? ANd no I am not asking for a response... And as for her arriving impaired--even the photos do not support that. The neighbor, and Kim said she was not sluggish from the beginning. Note: 20-25 minutes after injestion is when the drug kicks in.
You have no idea what actually has been released because as you agreed, we aren't, nor should we be privvy to every piece of information in the case.
As for the captains providing an incomplete list, if I had a party with 41 people in my house, I might miss one or two. Are you saying the names of the alleged rapists were purposely left off the list? If the hosts can't give a complete list, the authorities can certainly question the known party attendees to fill in the blanks. Hopefully, they have done this if they are doing their jobs.
As for your advocating "different kinds" of DNA, DNA is DNA. They don't match sperm cells or skin cells to make a match, they extract DNA from the sample and compare it with DNA from the donor. All anyone has to do is give saliva, which occurred. You're barking up the wrong tree, sorry.
As a former prosecutor who worked child abuse and sex crimes, I am eminently familiar with the process. The facts of each case are different but the process generally remains the same. You have your rape kit which swabs the genitals, scrapes nails, and mouth in the event of oral rape, as is alleged here. You have the physical exam, in which, apparently some swelling and evidence of sexual activity was found. She claims she was sodomized--that definitely leaves obvious signs. We'll see if the physical findings bear that out. Consensual sodomy should leave physical results quite different from forcible sodomy. Vaginal intercourse isn't quite as obvious, but a brutal rape such as is described leaves somewhat different physical findings that that of even consensual "rough sex". But, tearing and abrasions can occur from consensual sex as well. (Don't misunderstand, I'm distinguishing consensual from rape signs to signal what physical findings support a conclusion of rape, I'm not saying that consensual sex occurred at this party.)
Even if the perpetrators wore condoms, lubricants would be found. Crime labs can identify the name brand of a condom from the residue. A match to a condom wrapper found at the scene, perhaps a fingerprint, voila! A good sound case.
Even if the perpetrators did not ejaculate, she should have had DNA under the fingernails which matched, if she fought so hard as to lose several artificial nails, as is alleged. Fingernail scrapings, DNA match--voila! A good sound case.
Even if the perpetrator wore long sleeved shirts, hair or skin, perhaps blood from the fight may be found on the victim. DNA match of any aspect to the perpetrator--voila! A good, sound case.
Three perpetrators were allegedly present in the bathroom with the victim. If the crime scene technicians did their job properly, there must have been some evidence of the perpetrators in the bathroom. Hair, skin cells, saliva, blood, sweat, tears. Even fingerprints, although they would not be conclusive, as it was a party with presumably many people coming through. Definite conclusions with regard to the absence of the suspect's fingerprints at the scene may be drawn. I doubt they wore gloves.
Yes, it is true there were rape convictions prior to DNA but these days, if the DNA doesn't fit, you pretty much must acquit. Especially since the witness has serious credibility problems, one or both of the alleged perps wasn't at the party at all or not there long enough to perpetrate a 30 minute rape, and the timeline as evidenced by photographs simply doesn't fit.
Finally, not only is the prosecution going to have to present the physical facts, DNA if any and witness testimony including identification, the timeline as to what transpired prior to her arrival at the party is important. She could have engaged in sexual activity or even been raped by a client prior to her arrival at the party but decided to blame it on these rich white college boys. A good defense investigation will create a timeline that goes beyond the party itself. A good prosecutor will also do so, as not to be surprised at trial!!
I am initmately familiar with Rohypnol. Although the effects are similar to alcohol, it takes much less time to take effect, although it does take at least 15-20 minutes to begin taking effect. Popping a Roofie to disinhibit oneself when dancing is not at all unheard of. Most "exotic dancers" take drugs or drink while working. And if she did, she could function quite well for at least 15 minutes so this is not at all incompatable with the witness statements and/or photos.
But hey, you believe the stripper, I don't. It's a great country! I think there's one thing we can agree on, and that is that it is an interesting case and will make for a fascinating trial. It just appears highly political, to me!
Take care...GG
GG
That's interesting that you were familiar with the Rophynol..and suggested it was self-administered.....
As a former prosecutor you know what can & cannot be questioned as valid...multiple items in this case....
IN THE US JUSTICE SYSTEM....the innocent shall go free and the guilty.......
Rohypnol has been touted in the media as a "Date Rape" drug, but it is simply a sleeping pill. Because it is tasteless, odorless and (previously) colorless, it became convenient to slip into a drink in order to render the victim unable to resist sexual advances and/or remember what transpired.
For over five years, it has been manufactured differently so now it turns blue in liquid. Unless it is served in a blue or green tinted drink, it is hard to miss. Even a rum and Coke will take on an odd cast if it is doped with Rohypnol. It would be very difficult to procure in its previous form, but not impossible.
Like I said, I think it's been overly hyped in the media. People take Rohypnol to assist in sleep and it's effects would be a little too strong as a inhibition lowering drug, but perhaps the person in question did not know that. Street drugs are often mislabeled and misused. Her recall of the alleged rape is too vivid to have been done in conjunction with Rohypnol. She fought back, which victims of Rohypnol dosing do not do. If it is found in her system, I would suspect self-administration, either to lower her inhibitions or as part of her plan.
I was discussing this case with some colleagues today, and there was some questioning why only one of the two ladies was "raped" if Rohypnol was available. Wouldn't they take advantage of both?
Finally, I believe the quote is "It's better to let 10 guilty persons free than to wrongfully convict one innocent person". Most prosecutors I know don't agree. Although no one wants to convict an innocent person, we still want to nail the 10 others!!!
Thanks for the interesting debate. Take care! GG
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