Posted on 04/14/2006 1:13:37 PM PDT by bill1952
Hi.
I'm just getting back into hunting and target shooting, initially to 1,000 yards. Game would be whitetail deer.
Target shoots would be for both single shot accuracy and for grouping multiple shots. I'm looking for information on the .308 vs the 30.06 And any other suggestions would be fine.
I grew up with the 30.06, (gamemaster & Springfield bolt) but several people are telling me its time to look at the .308 particularly since it may become harder to find 30.06 if times in this country become tough, and 308 ammo is everywhere.
What are your ideas on long range target calibers?
I don't want an esoteric sniper rifle that won't last to practice with without burning out the barrel, but a good flat long range rifle/caliber/load(s) that I can practice with, and would be practical for hunting as well.
I'm not looking at mouse killers at this time. Thats another thread 8^)
That is a great site. Thanks!
I'm really starting to look at a loaded Standard M14 now.
I'd better cool it until my wife doesn't notice the prices of this equipment. :^)
Jesus, can anybody do that?
Consistant 5" groupings in the field at 1000?
What rifle would you suggest for that round?
A handfull of people in the world with very specialized equipment.
That's why people who are honest about their abilities and don't wnat to just wound animals mostly limit themselves to 300 to 400 yard shots at big game.
So9
> back into hunting and target shooting, initially to 1,000 yards
I guess my post was confusing. I didn't mean that I was going to try and hunt to 1000, just that I wanted to try the long line target shooting up to 1000, and hunt, as well.
I have shot at and occasionally hit the Buffalo Gongs at 900 yards at black powder matches. It's great fun, and sounds neat when that big lead slug does hit the gong, a full sized buffalo cut out of steel plate and suspended on chains.
So9
Hey, if women can use the "sliding price scale" for shoes and purses, then men can use it for guns!
I believe that PA is a lot like MI isn't it, farms along side woods? You won't go wrong with either (I have a 30-.06) and like other posters have said that the .308 won't have the range of choices in weights when it comes to commercial loads compared to the 30-.06 but it has become quite popular with the competitive shooters. Also, remember that the 30-.06 was used for sniper duty during WWII so it does have the ability to reach out quite a ways.
1000 yrds???
buy a r700/300 win mag
While 1,000 yards is a bit unrealistic with mine I can hit what I aim at out to 600 yards just about every time. With a decent scope (Lueopold or Nikon) long shots are a great deal easier.
I've got mine topped with the Springfield Rangefinding scope. I think they're out of production now, but if you can find one they're pretty good.
Just remember. You'll never be sorry you bought the best even if it hurts for a while.
L
That is a great rifle.
Dad had one that we took from time to time.
And I'm looking at a Leopold M3 type with the mil dots.
Very pricey scope. :^)
"What rifle would you suggest for that round?"
Sorry for the delay in reply. Either the Remington or Winchester actions are suitable for the task. If I was building a prone rifle that I wanted to be competitive at the long line I might consider a single shot action like the Nesika Bay but an action like that costs big money. A fella can find long Remchester actions anywhere for just a few hundred bucks. Any of the big name barrel maker's products perform well and choosing a barrel is mostly a matter of personal opinion. Kreiger, Shilen, Hart, etc all make a fine tube. Iron sights are more reliable and cheaper than scopes but if hunting is in the plan a decent scope will have to be acquired.
I've had both.30-06 and .308's. Both fine cartridges. I would agree that the '06 is more versatile for hunting, and the .308 more accurate for target. However, the way target shooting has gone recently with custom guns and calibers, the .308 is outmatched at the top levels. Even service rifle is using heavy bullet 5.56 in tweaked ARs. If I only had one, I'd go with the .30-06. Just my opinion, and worth everything I charged you for it.
Its easier to make a larger round behave like a smaller one that it is to maker a smaller round act like a large one.
Hey thanks. I have no experience with the 6.5 round at all.
I really don't even know what it is exactly.
I've been looking at remington barrels, but I don't know what twist would be more desirable for the long line.
Can you even see the target - not hunting - at 600+ without a scope?
"Can you even see the target - not hunting - at 600+ without a scope?"
Absolutely. Remember that the targets, on the NRA Highpower course of fire, are HUGE. The target itself is almost 6 feet square. The black bullseye is about 6 MOA wide at all ranges, ie 12" at 200, (actually 13"), 36" at 600 etc. The 10 ring is about 2 MOA wide at all ranges. They are easy to see and easy to hit. The trick is hitting the 10/X ring consistently every shot.
The 6.5 has one big advantage over other calibers and that is ballistic coefficient. This is a measure of how easily the bullet moves through the air. .30 caliber bullets that are commonly fired at 1000 yards are 190+ grains in weight. You need a lot of case capacity to drive these heavy slugs fast enough to stay ahead of the wind at 1000 yards. The BC of a 190 Sierra Matchking is roughly .550. You need a muzzle velocity of at least 2500 FPS and most shooters want more than that. A Magnum will get you to 2900 FPS but barrel life will be 500 rounds or less and the cost of shooting a Magnum is prohibitive. Now look at the 6.5. A 140 gr Sierra MK has a BC of .540 and a speed of 2800 is easy to get, even with a case as small as the 6.5x55. Recoil wont pound your position around with the smaller caliber and cost is greatly reduced. Twist for a 6.5 should be 1-8/1-9. Rem factory barrels are Ok for hunting but they are hammer forged, which means they have to be tapered in order to get the mandrel out. I know no one that shoots a factory tube. Hammer forging also induces much more stress into the tube so they are unpredictable when heated.
I see quite a few fellows shoot "F" class with Rem 700 police rifles and they do Ok. The range is short (600 yrds) and with a little tuning these rifles shoot pretty well.
"There ain't many problems you can't fix
with $700 and an 30-06."
Or, as Jeff Cooper once said, if you can't do it with a 30-06, you probably can't do it...
"If I only had one, I'd go with the .30-06."
I absolutely agree with this statement, but who can have just one?
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