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To: fortheDeclaration
Regarding evidence for the Flood,

Nevertheless, the actual facts or geology still favored catastrophism, and flood geology never died completely. Although the uniformitarian philosophers could point to certain difficulties in the Biblical geology of their predecessors, there were still greater difficulties in uniformitarianism. Once uniformitarianism had served its purpose—namely, that of selling the scientific community and the general public on the great age of the earth—then geologists could again use local catastrophic processes whenever required for specific geologic interpretations. Stephen Gould has expressed it this way: "Methodological uniformitarianism was useful only when science was debating the status of the supernatural in its realm." 1 Heylmun goes even further: "The fact is, the doctrine of uniformitarianism is no more ‘proved’ than some of the early ideas of world-wide cataclysms have been disproved."2 http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=54

You evolutionists are going to have a time of it explaining to God why you rejected His truth!

Were we given brains to not use?

The evidence against a global flood is overwhelming. Do we just ignore that evidence and say, "Can't see it, didn't happen" or some such?

Take a look at this and let me know what you think.

Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the heavens, and the other elements of the world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and the moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to be certain from reason and experience. Now it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and they hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make confident assertions [quoting 1Ti. 1:7].

- St. Augustine, The Literal Meaning of Genesis, 1:42-43.


231 posted on 03/24/2006 6:18:39 PM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: Coyoteman; fortheDeclaration

Coyoteman..bravo for reminding us of the words of St. Augustine...they apply so well, to the current thread...

FDT...everyone is going to have to explain themselves to God, when the time comes, you included...the way in which you read and interpret the Bible, is your own way, with your own particular bias, experience, and understanding...it may be a 'truth' for you, but you have no authority to declare it as the 'truth' for anyone but yourself...its only your own personal interpretation...other folks, can read the Bible, and same as you do, and come to an entirely different interpretation...and that will be the 'truth' for them...

You certainly do not have the authority to declare just what is Gods truth...all you can declare, is that you believe a certain interpretation, which works for you...and millions of others have different interpretations which work for them...and neither interpretation will ever be agreed on, by all those calling themselves Christian...



239 posted on 03/24/2006 6:28:19 PM PST by andysandmikesmom
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To: Coyoteman

I do not consider a world wide fossil record, a geology denoting primarily aquaeous deposition, a planet three-forths covered by water, and a mantle saturated with water to be evidence against a global flood. I also do not consider uniformitarianism to be the last word in applying reason to the geologic record.

I do, however, consider St. Augustine to be on the mark in admonishing Christians to do their homework. The physical creation is a scientific creation, and the future resurrection of human flesh will be a scientific resurrection of the flesh, much as quantum physics is leading us to the understanding that time and space entail much more than human reason has yet to lay hold of.

The prophets and apostles St. Augustine holds in high esteem were ridiculed and put to death not for maintaining views that were contrary to the scientific status quo, but for maintaining that the Creator holds accountable those who do not take Him at His word. That includes matters pertaining to creation in general and the human condition in particular.

It strikes me as akin to the arguments against intelligent design when it is written: "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead." Scoffing is to be expected, but it is not because there is no evidence of truth.


264 posted on 03/24/2006 7:01:39 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Coyoteman
Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make confident assertions [quoting 1Ti. 1:7].

St. Augustine makes an excellent point, one which the Creos here and elsewhere really need ot consider.

Case in point: I was led to accept the existence of a deity last June. The "conversion" process was quite personal, and not valid as proof for use to convince anyone else: It suffices that it was sufficient to convince *me*. The process left me with little firm understanding of the specifics of this deity. And EVERY SINGLE TIME one of our "special" friends here spouts genesis-literalism, my interest in pursuing understanding of deity *in their direction* wanes ever further.

In this manner, by "defending" their God with absurdities and fallacy, they work *against* one of their creed's principal tenets.

386 posted on 03/25/2006 7:54:37 PM PST by King Prout (many complain I am overly literal. this would not be a problem if so many were not under-precise)
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