Dog Breeder Licencing in Florida

vanity | 3/19/06 | me

[doc30]

Normally, I don't post requests for help on issues, but there are a fair number of more knowlegeable animal lover Freepers than I. They may be interested and/or could offer some insight into 2 bills pending in FL.

Here are the Senate Summaries of these 2 bills coming before the Senate Agriculture Committee in FL and are to be voted on the 21st. Has anyone heard of these bills and does anyone have any idea what their impact will be?

Some have said that this will cripple the dog/cat breeders in FL and will include private, non-profit animal rescue groups as "pet dealers" and make them subject to licensing requirements. Such volunteer organizations are in no place to administer government regulations and they perform an important community function. It will also shut down home/hobby breeders. For those interested, here is a list of the committee members.

Bullard 850-487-5127
Argenziano 850-487-5017
Bennett 850-487-5078
Haridopolos 850-487-5056
Peaden 850-487-5000
Smith 850-487-5020

[brytlea]

Puppy mills: Only reason to exist is to make money.
Hobby breeder: Emphasis is on breeding for certain qualities (depends upon the venue). Rarely make a profit.

Puppy mills: Generally have at least several breeds, often more than 5 different breeds.
Hobby breeder: Most of the time focuses on 1 or 2 breeds.

Puppy mills: Generally have puppies available all the time and usually sell puppies via some other outlet (pet shops or brokers)
Hobby breeder: Generally breed only a few litters per year and sell their puppies themselves (and carefully screen buyers).

Puppy mills: Are not there for the buyer after the sale.
Hobby breeders: Are there for the buyer for the life of the dog.

Puppy mills: Usually do not do any genetic testing, usually breed females at each season until they cannot produce enough puppies.
Hobby breeders: Usually breed a bitch no more often than once every year and frequently not that often, usually only have a few litters from one female, and then they are spayed and retired by age 8.

Puppy mills: Do not do anything other than breed their dogs.
Hobby breeder: Competes or tests their dogs in some venue.

There are certainly things I have not thought of, but there's a start for you.
susie

[brytlea]

Where do you think most of those purebreds come from?
I've done rescue, and I can tell you that rarely did we see a golden who came from a breeder (and the few occasions when we did the breeder took the dog back). Most of them came from just someone who had a golden and thought it would be fun to have a litter. Guess what? This law won't even affect that person, because they won't breed 2 litters a year.
susie

[brytlea]

You may want to hold off thanking me....it's a tedious read!
susie

[HairOfTheDog]

He told me that breeders that show dogs are responsible for only 10 percent of the AKC registered dogs in the country

Before I let the show people get all uppity, you guys have to realize that you haven't exactly been a benefit to most breeds. Show people are responsible for turning many breeds into beautiful idiots.

[Darnright]

>If it will stop puppy farms then I am all for it...<

It won't. In fact, it will have the opposite effect. Smaller breeders will stop breeding, and that will leave an open playing field to behemoths like this.

Be very careful what you wish for.

[HairOfTheDog]

Where do you think most of those purebreds come from?

Parents that look alike?

I'm not new, brytlea... I know all that.

[brytlea]

I gotta say that in my experience alot of the shelters do think they're the only ones capable of doing the job. It's sad because purebred rescue groups are usually peopled with folks experienced with the breed who can evaluate and properly socialize or otherwise care for the dog until they find a good permanent home. When people call me for puppies I generally ask them first if they would consider an older dog and tell them about rescue. And in alot of cases, I think the person is better off with an older rescue, not an 8 week old puppy.
susie

[afraidfortherepublic]

I have to speak up for the remarkable work that Golden Retriever Rescue of Wisconsin (GRROW) does. The women (mostly women) associated with that organization take abandoned Goldens and socialize them, get them spayed, get health checks and shots for them, and find good homes for them. Even "special needs" Goldens find good homes through GRROW. And the dogs repay the favor by becoming the most wonderful pets. Some have gone on to become search and rescue dogs. GRROW often rescues dogs from poorly run shelters and puppy mills and rehabilitates them.

No dog leaves GRROW's care that is not A-1 OK. GRROW even provides help for expensive surgery for displastic dogs and treatment for heartworm. If the dog is deemed unadoptable, a "foster mom" provides a loving and kind home for the dog's final days. Nobody makes any money off of this work. Most of the vet care is donated, as is all of the fostering. Added fees would really strap this organization and result in fewer adoptions.

My precious Golden was found as a stray, and he has become the center of my home and my office. He is the office dog and sleeps in the President's office because that is where the carpet is. The President (my husband) conducts his work from an auxiliary office so that Max can relax in the luxury he deserves as the company mascot.

Max was a wild young thing when I first got him four years ago at about 8 months, but GRROW's rules required that I take him for obedience training. He is a perfect gentleman now. And GRROW's rules also decree that if I ever find that I can no longer keep him, he must be relinquished back to GRROW. I cannot pass him on to a third party that they do not know -- not even to my own children.

Not only are most of the dogs given up for adoption to rescue groups large dogs, as doc mentioned, 3/4 of them are males. They are just like rowdy teenagers, but with the right training quickly develop into responsible young men.

Max was deemed unsuitable for a family with children (he knocked my husband to the ground with his exuberance the day we first met him, but we still fell in love with him), and you can see by this picture with one of my grandchildren that he has come a long way:

And he no longer wears a "prong" training collar, either -- a soft collar will do just fine. He does consider leashes beneath him because he knows how to walk all by himself, thank you very much, although he will tolerate them when necessary. He is truly a Golden Angel.

[sissyjane]

That comment is rather irresponsible don't you think?

[brytlea]

There's alot of stuff embedded in this bill that probably seems inocuous on first glance, but has the potential to cause problems. For instance, it appears to say that breeders will not be able to give their own vaccinations (I don't but many do) or worm their own puppies, AND that they must have them wormed. On the fact of it, this sounds logical, however, I always have my puppies tested for worms twice and if they don't show any, I don't worm them as I am not a proponant of willy nilly putting things into them. Maybe I'm a wacko, but I've only ever had to worm puppies twice, and both times it was the same dam, who apparently carried round worms. And, no one has ever come back later and said their puppy had worms after they bought it. So, this might seem like a minor thing, but why is the State of FL deciding that's their business?
Also, I think this may be just the beginning, but then again, maybe I'm paranoid about the govt getting their hands into things. I expect if this passes we will soon have other legislation out there that is even worse.
susie

[LADY J]

"You just made my point. This person is not a hobby breeder. By definition, hobby breeders do not breed to make money. You are barking up the wrong tree (pardon the pun!)"

That was not the intent of my post - maybe it was a bit off topic.

I was talking about how people neglect animals and consider them throw aways. This just happened to be a case that it was the breeder and not just a pet owner.

[afraidfortherepublic]

Bunnie's story is simply horrific. And I especially agree with the last line. Never, never buy a puppy from a pet store. The most problematic dogs I have ever seen came from a pet store in a mall. They should all be shut down.

[Tallguy]

I'm on your side of this argument, but any law is going to have to quantify in order to define what is being regulated.

I live in Pennsylvania and have lived in Lancaster County (where the Amish crank out puppies like any other livestock). Successive dog laws have failed to put much of a dent into volume breeding business there. OTOH, zoning laws limiting households to 2 dogs have really put private breeders in jeopardy. Get that 3rd dog and your local township considers you 'a kennel'. In this case, the number is unrealistically low.

[brytlea]

Before I let the show people get all uppity, you guys have to realize that you haven't exactly been a benefit to most breeds. Show people are responsible for turning many breeds into beautiful idiots.

Blanket statement. First off, many hobby breeders do not show in conformation, they are performance people and I think they would take great umbrance at what you just said. I think if you're going to say something so inflammatory you need to cite proof of it.

susie

[brytlea]

Then I really don't have a clue what your point is in saying that many dogs in shelters are purebreds. So what?

susie

[brytlea]

Awww what a cutie!
susie

[brytlea]

Yeah, there are alot of awful people out there who should never be allowed to have pets or children, for that matter.
It's sad, and I expect we will never have an end to it. You know, alot of this stuff would be unnecessesary if the public would not buy puppies from pet shops or out of Walmart parking lot, etc. And if they would spay and neuter, etc. But this law won't affect that.
susie

[afraidfortherepublic]

And in alot of cases, I think the person is better off with an older rescue, not an 8 week old puppy.

That is absolutely true, and that is exactly why we applied to GRROW. We needed a housebroken animal who could go to work with us every day. Max is perfect.

Our friends thought we were being foolish, adopting someone else's "cast off" dog and predicted all kinds of trouble. They are amazed at the sweet, beautiful Golden that we adopted. I feel obliged to mention that they just bought a fancy yellow lab puppy from someone tht they met at a dog training class, and I'm just not too sure about that pup. I note a lot of stiffness in the hind legs when their puppy -- now about 10 mos old -- gets up from a nap. She runs it off after a while, but her gait reminds me of my old (now deceased) Golden when she was over 15.

I certainly hope that their pup does not turn out to have bad hips. I know that you cannot predict that outcome untill the dog is over a year old and has a full X-ray exam.

[afraidfortherepublic]

Awww what a cutie!

Dog or grandchild? LOL!

[brytlea]

Tell me about it. We moved to S. FL about 2 years ago, and I could only bring 2 of my dogs. I was very lucky to be in a situation with a co-owner who took one of them and 2 sons who took the other two (I had recently lost my 2 old dogs to old age--that's another sad story!). It's really difficult to show dogs and only be able to keep 2 at a time.
susie