Dog Breeder Licencing in Florida

vanity | 3/19/06 | me

[doc30]

Normally, I don't post requests for help on issues, but there are a fair number of more knowlegeable animal lover Freepers than I. They may be interested and/or could offer some insight into 2 bills pending in FL.

Here are the Senate Summaries of these 2 bills coming before the Senate Agriculture Committee in FL and are to be voted on the 21st. Has anyone heard of these bills and does anyone have any idea what their impact will be?

Some have said that this will cripple the dog/cat breeders in FL and will include private, non-profit animal rescue groups as "pet dealers" and make them subject to licensing requirements. Such volunteer organizations are in no place to administer government regulations and they perform an important community function. It will also shut down home/hobby breeders. For those interested, here is a list of the committee members.

Bullard 850-487-5127
Argenziano 850-487-5017
Bennett 850-487-5078
Haridopolos 850-487-5056
Peaden 850-487-5000
Smith 850-487-5020

[Darnright]

>We HAD to declare any income from any sales; but were not allowed to take any expense deductions for our hobby, unless we could PROVE it was a business, AND made a "reasonable profit" (Reasonability determined by IRS) 3 years out of 5. (A special IRS rule for easily abused "businesses" that are normally considered hobbies.)<

There was a law we worked to defeat this year (in Virginia) that had a clause written in that exempted anyone who bred dogs "not for profit". The problem is, in another part of the law, taking money of any amount could be defined as breeding "for profit". Profit does not necessarily mean you make more than you spend, it seems.

Good, ethical breeders don't make more than they spend on their animals, if they're breeding judiciously, and health testing their animals. If you breed Toys, and have a C-section, your "profit" goes down the drain or into your Vet's pocket. Add a stud fee upwards of a thousand dollars, and you see why we call this a hobby, or a mental illness (chuckle).

[Calpernia]

PAWS/USDA Definition for Dealer
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ac/cfr/9cfr3.html

9 CFR § 3.1 Housing facilities, general.

(b) . . .Housing facilities [for dogs and cats, ed.] . . . must be physically separated from any other business. If a housing facility is located on the same premises as another business, it must be physically separated from the other business so that animals the size of dogs, skunks, and raccoons are prevented from entering it.


PAWS/USDA definition of retail pet store in 7 USC § 2132

Retail pet store means any outlet, including but not limited to residential dwellings where only the following animals are sold or offered for sale, at retail, for use as pets: Dogs, cats, rabbits, guinea pigs, hamsters, gerbils, rats, mice, gophers, chinchilla, domestic ferrets, domestic farm animals, birds, and coldblooded species. Such definition excludes- (Emphasis added).

(1) Establishments or persons exhibiting, selling, or offering to exhibit or sell any wild or exotic or other nonpet species of warmblooded animals (except birds), such as skunks, raccoons, nonhuman primates, squirrels, ocelots, foxes, coyotes, etc.;

(2) Any establishment or person selling warmblooded animals (except birds, and laboratory rats and mice) for research or exhibition purposes; and

(3) Any establishment wholesaling any animals (except birds, rats and mice).

(4) Any establishment exhibiting pet animals in a room that is separate from or adjacent to the retail pet store, or in an outside area, or anywhere off the retail pet store premises.

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>>>>Prohibits a person from operating as a pet dealer unless the person holds a license issued by the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services.<<<<

To be exempt under PAWS, a hobby breeder must not, within a calendar year, derive more than $500 gross income from the sale of "other" animals. See 26 USC § 1031(f)

If a person breeds dogs or cats as well as birds, and sells birds worth $501.00 during any calendar year, he is a dealer.

The AWA has been amended four times since 1966. PAWS erases the distinction between retail and wholesale. Wholesale, meaning sales from homes or homesteads.

[Darnright]

Thanks, Cal!!!! I hate that because of PAWS, I find myself really disagreeing with Rick Santorum. I wish he'd step away from the pitcher of Kool-Aid.

[HairOfTheDog]

Look, the physical defects I described are well documented, and I think you know this, which is why you want to argue the less definable term "idiot". It's an opinion, obviously, and is found mostly in breeds largely without a strong working following, breeds like Cockers, Setters, and Collies, for example. Gorgeous dogs, not known for remaining particularly talented in their original purpose, and ranging from nutty to dull in temperament. These are intangibles, and obviously include a very subjective value judgment about the temperament the perfect dog of each breed ~should~ have.

You're free to disagree, and I don't even mind. I'm glad you think you're doing good work. More power to ya. But you certainly know that in many breeds there has become an unfortunate divergence between show and working lines, and in many cases I side with the working line breeders on which is the better dog.

Speaking of dogs with a strong working following, Border Collie breeders were very resistant to AKC recognition. Why is that?

[Calpernia]

My post 142

[Calpernia]

The problem now with USDA adapting the PAWS laws standards, even if it doesn't get signed into law federally, they are still the standards that need to be adhered to when states adopt locally.

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't see that segment preventing people from breeding and keeping dogs in the house. Isn't that what the question was?

[sissyjane]

Speaking of dogs with a strong working following, Border Collie breeders were very resistant to AKC recognition. Why is that?


If the Border Collie owners don't want them shown, then they won't show them.

I read that article, and they like AKC sanctioned events, as long as they aren't conformation events. Don't show 'em!

[Darnright]

******PERMISSION TO CROSSPOST

---

Florida Senate Bill 470 (Purchase of Dogs & Cats) is also scheduled to be heard
in the Senate Agriculture Committee tomorrow, March 21st.

You can read the full text of this bill here:

http://tinyurl.com/c93ky

I have gone through the bill and copied the text of the changes below:

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under the direction of a veterinarian" means that a licensed doctor of


veterinary medicine is on the premises at the time the tests, vaccines, and

anthelmintics required by this section are administered.


As used in this paragraph, the term "under the direction of a

veterinarian" means that a licensed doctor of veterinary medicine is on

the premises at the time the tests, vaccines, and anthelmintics required

by this section are administered.


(c) The term "animal-purchase disclosure" means a

legible certificate containing the following information:

1. For dogs:

a. The breeder's name and address, if known, or if not

known, the source of the dog. If the person from whom the dog

was obtained is a dealer licensed by the United States

Department of Agriculture, the person's name, address, and

federal dealer identification number

b. The date of the dog's birth and the date the dealer

received the dog. If the dog is from a source licensed by the

United States Department of Agriculture, the individual

identifying tag, tattoo, or collar number for that animal. If

the breed is unknown or mixed, the record shall so indicate.

c. If the dog is being sold as being capable of

registration, the names and registration numbers of the sire

and dam and the litter number, if known.

d. A record of any veterinarian treatment or

medication received by the dog while in the possession of the

pet dealer.

2. For cats:

a. The breeder's and broker's name and address, if

known, or if not known, the source of the cat. If the person

from whom the cat was obtained is a dealer licensed by the

United States Department of Agriculture, the person's name,

address, and federal dealer identification number.

b. The date of the cat's birth, unless unknown because

of the source of the cat and the date the dealer received the

cat.

c. A record of any known disease or sickness that the

cat is afflicted with at the time of sale. This information

shall be orally disclosed to the purchaser.

d. A record of any veterinarian treatment or

medication received by the cat while in the possession of the

pet dealer.

A pet dealer may not possess a dog or cat that is less than 8 weeks old if

the dealer is not the breeder of the animal.

(c) If a dog or cat is returned to a pet dealer due to

illness, disease, or a congenital or hereditary condition

requiring veterinary care, the pet dealer shall provide the

animal with proper veterinary care that may include humanely

euthanizing the animal.

(13) Each pet dealer shall post in a conspicuous

location on the cage of each dog or cat offered for sale a

notice indicating the state where the dog or cat was bred and

brokered.

(20)(a) A pet dealer may not state, promise, or

represent to the purchaser, directly or indirectly, that a dog

is registered, or capable of being registered, with an animal

pedigree registry organization unless the pet dealer provides

the purchaser with the documents necessary for that

registration within 120 days following the date of sale of the

dog.

(b) If a pet dealer fails to provide the documents

necessary for registration within 6 months following the date

of sale in violation of paragraph (a), the purchaser shall,

upon written notice to the pet dealer, be entitled to retain

the animal and receive a partial refund of 75 percent of the

purchase price of the animal, plus sales tax, or return the

animal along with all documentation previously provided the

purchaser for a full refund, including sales tax.

(21)(17) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter,

a person who violates any provision of this section commits a

misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s.

775.082 or s. 775.083, and such person may also be assessed a

civil penalty of up to $1,000, and may be prohibited from

selling dogs or cats at retail in this state for up to 30

days. For a second violation, the pet dealer is subject to a

civil penalty of up to $2,500 and may be prohibited from

selling dogs or cats at retail in this state for up to 90

days. For a third violation, the pet dealer is subject to a

civil penalty of up to $5,000 and may be prohibited from

selling dogs or cats at retail in this state for up to 6

months. For a fourth or subsequent violation, the pet dealer

is subject to a civil penalty of up to $10,000 and may be

prohibited from selling dogs or cats at retail in this state

for up to 1 year. The state attorney may bring an action to

impose a civil penalty for a violation of this section and may

seek a court order enjoining the person from engaging in the

business of selling dogs or cats at retail in this state for

the period set forth in this subsection.

---

PHONE CALLS, EMAILS, AND OR FAXES ARE NEEDED TO ALL SENATE AGRICULTURE COMMITTEE
MEMBERS TODAY!!!! YOUR PHONE CALL CAN BE AS SIMPLE AS "I AM OPPOSED TO SB 470 -
PLEASE VOTE NO"!!!!

Senate Agriculture Committee
Phone: 850-487-5133
FAX: 850-487-5037

Mailing Address:
404 South Monroe Street
Tallahassee, FL 32399-1100


Rod Smith, Chairman
Phone #: 850-487-5020
Email: smith.rod.web@...

Larcenia Bullard, Vice-Chair
Phone #: 850-487-5127
Email: bullard.larcenia.web@...

Nancy Argenziano
Phone #: 850-487-5017
Email: argenziano.nancy.web@...

Mike S. "Mike" Bennett
Phone #: 850-487-5078
Email: bennett.mike.web@...

Mike Haridopolos
Phone #: 850-487-5056
Email: haridopolos.mike.web@...

Durrell Peaden, Jr.
Phone #: 850-689-0556 Ext. 201
Email: peaden.durell.web@...


TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE AS THIS BILL WILL BE VOTED ON TUESDAY, MARCH 21ST AT
2PM!!!!

Thanks for your help.

Pat Hawk
President
Florida Animal Owners Alliance, Inc.
www.flaoa.org

[HairOfTheDog]

That doesn't answer why they were resistant. They were resistant because they fear the general quality of the breed going down if they gain a substantial following that is focused on looks over working ability. They fear this because they've seen it happen to other breeds.

[Calpernia]

What don't you understand?

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't 'understand' where it says breeders can't keep dogs in the house.

Retail pet store means any outlet, including but not limited to residential dwellings

What are you talking about?

[Darnright]

Hair, the segment is not specifically in the Florida statute, but the term "dealer" is used, and I wasn't sure if it was defined by the state. I would be concerned, were I in Florida, because, if the definition of dealer is ever held to USDA standards, then here is Calpernia's quote re USDA:

"PAWS/USDA Definition for Dealer
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ac/cfr/9cfr3.html

9 CFR § 3.1 Housing facilities, general.

(b) . . .Housing facilities [for dogs and cats, ed.] . . . must be physically separated from any other business. If a housing facility is located on the same premises as another business, it must be physically separated from the other business so that animals the size of dogs, skunks, and raccoons are prevented from entering it."

[Calpernia]

This law isn't federal (yet) so we are being specific to Florida.

New definition now adheres to the USDA regulations adopted by the introduction of PAWS.

These regulations are applied as the States try to sign them in. In this case we are speaking of Florida.

If I own animals, and I sell one, and it is more than $500, I now become a retailer/dealer.

That subjects me to the USDA dealer definitions.

I cannot have a license if it is part of the home, it has to be a separate facility.

[brytlea]

Well, it took a little research to find it, however, HSUS supports the bills

HSUS Website

State Status: Pending FL S.B. 470 & S.B. 674 Pet Dealer Licensing and Inspection Bill Number: S.B. 470 & S.B. 674 HSUS Position: Support

And they are closely connected to PETA:

The group completed its animal-rights transformation during the 1990s, changing its personnel in the process. HSUS assimilated dozens of staffers from PETA and other animal-rights groups, even employing John “J.P.” Goodwin, a former Animal Liberation Front member and spokesman with a lengthy arrest record and a history of promoting arson to accomplish animal liberation.

link

I'm sure you will label my links as non credible sources, but if you put HSUS +PETA into google, you will pull up lots of links. Find one that suits you.

I'm sorry this doesn't look more professional, I'm not that good at making the links, I'm just glad it worked! susie

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't see where that keeps dogs from being in the home. It's worded oddly, and I haven't looked it up to see if there is more to it than you've said... but it seems to be talking about seperation from other ~businesses~ to prevent entry of pests (disease carrying pests presumably). It doesn't say it must be seperate from a residence in that exerpt.

[Calpernia]

>>>>It doesn't say it must be seperate from a residence in that exerpt.

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ac/cfr/9cfr3.html

9 CFR § 3.1 Housing facilities, general.

(b) . . .Housing facilities [for dogs and cats, ed.] . . . must be physically separated from any other business. If a housing facility is located on the same premises as another business, it must be physically separated from the other business so that animals the size of dogs, skunks, and raccoons are prevented from entering it.

Example:

My name is Jane and I live in Florida. I own a dog, a cat and a pair of donkeys. I sell a foal for $550. I have now renamed myself a DEALER. My animals must now be in a kennel type facility as a licensed dealer.

[Darnright]

You might be able to convert part of your residence into meeting USDA regs (for example, floors, walls and ceilings must be waterproof), but you have to have a separate kitchen facilities, bathroom and oh, by the way, don't forget separate sewer systems.

Gotta hand it to the government, they don't miss a trick (grin).

[HairOfTheDog]

You know, even given my healthy skepticism of the government and lawyers, and an anxiety about these coming USDA regs, I just am not convinced that's what that says. It wouldn't make it one day in practice.

[Calpernia]

I am posting to a message board excerpts from about 330 documents. I'm reading for you.

It says that and more. I've given you the links and citations.