(Advice) Looking to buy new handgun, can't decide

March 17 2006 | diverteach

[diverteach]

Given that it looks like many Freepers are also gun enthusiasts, I thought I'd ask for some help in making a decision as to what to buy in the way of a handgun.

I pretty much have it narrowed down to a few choices.

.357 or a 44m Taurus or Smith & Wesson

and

With a 4" or 6" barrel

Thanks in advance freepers!

BTW, if you know of any other alternatives along the same lines, please let me know what.

[CountryBumpkin]

Excellent. Your post prompted me to go check SA's website again. Looks like they finally put up the announcement for the 5" tactical. The 5" Bi-Tone XD 45 ACP is next for my collection. Have you actually seen one in person yet or advertised as "in stock"? Last I heard, SA stated availability no sooner than the end of May.

[Fido969]

I bought a Taurus P22 for my girlfriend, I thought it would be a pretty gun for her to enjoy. Of course I had to take it to the range and try it first!


What a miserable experience. First of all, the gun is too small to shoot even the .22 comfortably. I think a woman who wasn't very comfortable with gun would not like shooting this gun after a while.

Secondly, it jammed and jammed and jammed. I think the problem was the cheap little tinny magazine, I saw how it was misfeeding, and then pinched the top lips of the mag together slightly to change the angle it entered the chamber - then it fed well - until I heard something "pop" inside the gun, and the gun literally fell apart in my hands.

I gathered the pieces together, sent them to Taurus and they fixed the gun, but I just keep the thing in the closet now. I consider it one of my "mistakes".

I was in a gun shop and a guy bought one of those - it was his first gun and he said wanted something for self-defense. The customer looked a little loony, I think maybe the dealer sold him that gun so he wouldn't be able to hurt anyone with it. I sure wouldn't want to have to depend on that gun.

[Fido969]

Anyway, this is what I would grab for self-defense:

This round will punch a good sized hole in about anything, including steel plate, and (2) 15 rounds mags will give you *many* times more more firepower than *any* wheel gun.

Why settle for less?

[FreedomForce]

Nope, haven't seen the Bi-Tone Tactical yet. The XD Forum says April or May for the Bi-Tone Tactical. I think there's just the basic black Tactical available right now. The Bi-Tone Service 4" is available now though(along the black and the OD green.) I haven't been looking to buy yet because I've been waiting to see if there are any major problems with the XD45ACP models. Doesn't seem to be a gun with problems, and some of the posters on the XD Forum have already put a LOT of rounds through their XDs.

[FreedomForce]

I was incorrect about the Bi-Tones. Looks like it's April or May for the Service and a little later than that for the Tactical. Not sure about the OD Green--it may not be available in either model yet, as well. The Tactical in black is available now though, and that's what I'm planning on getting. Hoping it won't be too difficult to find one.

[Lurker]

Mrs. L bought one of those titanium Taurus revolvers in .44 spl and she's very happy with it.

We haven't had any quality issues and for a snubby it's remarkably accurate.

Since I handload for the family, cost isn't really an issue. I've worked up a load that pushes the 230 gr JHP at around 900 fps and is reasonably controllable even from the lightweight frame.

L

[PoorMuttly]

Thanks BR. Obviously this subject is important to me, and having been in harm's way a little from time to time, I know it as much more than just an interesting hobby. There is so much misinformation around, that even though I usually feel somewhat embarrassed after one of my opus posts, I feel compelled to cast whatever light I have found for the assistance of others, and discussion. So, thanks for patting moi on the head.

I especially value tools which can accomplish various jobs in a real pinch. Hunting for food, and effectively dispatching livestock and predators is also kind-of on the important side to me.

Now that the thread is flourishing, how about a little input from YOU diverteach! I dive too, and have had to carry a .38 Chief in a plastic bag, for personal protection from feral dogs and people while leaving the water. For this use, I favor a stainless revolver. Water easily drains from a revolver, and a dead round is easily passed by to a hopefully good one, should the waterproofing fail.

Other considerations for you may be, but I am assuming this without your input, that you may be concerned with rattlesnakes as I have been while diving in remote areas of Florida. For this, the .44 is FAR superior to any .38/.357 with shot charges. FAR better. I would not hesitate to shoot it at pests or very small game even a few yards away, not so with a lesser caliber. There is more shot, which provides a more saturated pattern at short range...what Squantos may call "minute of rattlesnake head." A .38 will certainly require more shooting.

One other, other thing. Experience has taught me that although .38/.355 class handguns are very popular and certainly handy to carry and draw...most live targets will require more shooting...not a good thing. I have noticed that the truth is often inconvenient, and it took me a loooooong time to face that what I was convinced would work for me, didn't, when it was my butt out there. For hunting, the penalty may be living with having caused suffering...something important to me. For self defense....it could mean the world.

[PoorMuttly]

All this may be academic to you, if you use many models and styles already, or have very specific performance requirements.

So considering real effectiveness, after reviewing spktyr's posts [http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1599133/posts?q=1&&page=101], my parting shot here is in consideration of what really, really works.

A long barreled .357 works pretty well in the field, and ranch. It only holds 6 or perhaps 7 rounds. Resupply not particularly improbable. Pack o' dogs, whatever, you may be in trouble, but this may be offset by less muzzle rise, good for repeat fire. The .44 works well even with a shorter barrel, because it is simply larger, heavier, in relation to desired effect upon the "target." May require less rounds expended for desired result. Much bigger, heavier instrument, though. Such is life.

I expect the 10mm Auto to gain popularity since Glock has apparently made a reliable pistol, according to reports from users. However, no snakeshot, rare ammunition (so far), and all the liabilities of a semi-auto vs. a revolver.

Enjoy the free lunch.

[FreedomForce]

Doubt that the 10mm is going to gain popularity. It'll hang around as a niche cartridge for people wanting something a little different, but its opportunity to really hit it bigtime has come and gone. Glock 20 is a nice gun, but the grip is too large for many people(same problem as Glock's hi-cap .45ACP.)

[Fred911]

My choice would be a S&W 686 with a 4" barrel. Shoots .38 or .357 you can make it go bang or BANG....

[diverteach]

Thanks for all your advice. Not only yourself, but many here, as expected seemed to have the knowledge I was looking for.

After going through and reading all the responses, it seems as though I failed to include more specifics. I should have know better given the cast array of choices on the market for handguns.

As mentioned initially the choice was between the S&W and Taurus .44 or 357, 4 or 6 inch barrel.

Many have been advising on semi-auto's. I did purchase what I thought was a good choice, given what I had to choose from in the small local gunshop, a model 1911 Colt .45

I bought it along with 2 boxes of ammo, took it out for some practice, and halfway through the second box it locked up. Not just a mere jam, it LOCKED up to the point I couldn't do anything with it. I took it directly back to the shop were even the gunsmith couldn't immediately figure out what happened.

Whether it's a firearm or anything else, when something brand new screws up under normal use I loose faith in it and will choose something else. Fortunately the gunshop gave me a full refund, no questions and nothing else he had interested me.

Recently there has opened up here a Bass Pro Shop with a nice gun selection. Having had bad luck with a semi, I decided on a good ole simple and reliable revolver.

As others advised before, me being in humid Florida, I already knew the Stainless models were also the route to take.

S&W definately has the name, but the like Taurus models seemed almost indistinguisable outside of the grips. S&W definately felt better, but while the Taurus didn't feel bad it was also much cheaper in price. Plus they had a model that held 8 rounds.

Size. I'm trying to find that middle ground were I can have something that packs and draws well, as well as one that gives better accuracy.

Snubbies pack well but aren't accurate whereas the 6" is most accurate but doesn't pack well enough. I think I've decided on the 4".

After long and carefull consideration, I believe I'm going with the S&W 4" Stainless 357

[sig226]

Taurus guns are cheaper because the parts don't fit properly, and they fail in 'interesting' ways.

DON'T BUY A TAURUS REVOLVER. I've sent so many of those things back to Miami, I can't count them any more.

The Smith 686 is a great gun with the 4" barrel. The Ruger GP - 100 is just as strong, reliable, solid, and accurate, and costs about $100 less. The comfortable Hogue grip on the Smith and Wesson is a $25 part for the Ruger and it installs in five minutes.

If money is really a concern, you did not email me so now I will pontificate on the purchase of used revolvers. :)

First, look at it. If the previous owner scratched it, didn't clean it, and generally beat on it, don't buy it. If its clean and free of cosmetic damage, the guy took care of it. Dirt and lead fouling can hide damage, so even if the gun seems perfect, I knocked $50 - $100 off the offer price when somebody brought us a dirty gun.

Look at the screws on the side of it. If they are boogered - chewed up with a cheap screwdriver - someone did some home gunsmithing on the gun. Depending on what they did, this can cost more to fix than the gun is worth, so don't buy it.

Run your fingers along the barrel. If you detect any kind of bulge, don't buy it. You'd be surprised how common this is.

Check that its unloaded, close the cylinder, and cock the hammer. Try to push the hammer forward with your thumb. It should not move at all. If it falls, someone did a bad trigger job on it, the gun is capable of firing without pulling the trigger, and the repair is at least $200.

Cock the hammer and try to turn the cylinder. Do this six times, one time for each firing chamber on a six shooter. The cylinder will wobble a little, but only a few hundredths of an inch. Do it for each chamber, because one cylinder stop notch might be worn and the other five are okay. If the cylinder turns, the gun is capable of exploding when fired.

Open it up again and check the inside of the topstrap, the part of the frame above and right behind the barrel. There may be an accumulation of lead there. A dental pick will remove it without damaging the gun. If the owner refuses to let you remove the lead, ask him to do it. If he won't, thank him for his time.

Magnum revolver cartridges produce an effect called 'gas cutting.' The propellant gases burn at a thousand or so degrees and thousands of pounds of pressure. Some of this gas strikes the steel frame of the gun. In fact, if you go back to post 27 on this thread, the picture of the S&W 360PD, you'll see a tiny, gray piece of steel above the end of the barrel by the cylinder.

This was put there to prevent gas cutting on the alloy frame. If the gun has deep gas cutting, the cut is about 1/32" deep. This means a lot of magnum loads were fired. The gun still has a usable service life, but bear in mind that magnum loads stress the moving parts more than .38 Special loads, and something might need to be fixed one day. Such a gun should be around $400, if everything else on it is good. If the gas cutting is deeper than that, avoid it. It will have problems, like a high mileage used car.

I am done pontficating. :)

[PoorMuttly]

Ah siggy, you are too kind.

Me help...because everybody knows that Muttly is polite...but that's about it!

---

diverteach:

Sorry to hear about your 1911. It was a great choice, and obvious that you're really aware of what works. I guess you got your "Six for Sure" lesson right away, without tours through the lands of suspended belief. Even this thread has a grim report of magazine lips disabling an automatic. The .45ACP is big, round, and bulky, so minimizes some of the touchyness, as does the 1911 simple s.a. mechanism, but as a long time daily user of semiautomatics, I can tell you that the old cowboy six-shooter motto really holds true, especially at O-Dark-Thirty, when you fill your mitts and wonder if you have the coherence to grapple with a jam. Not nice. At such times the 1911 or Browning Hi-Power will do, as long as you don't forget the "click" part of "click-boom." Training.

So here's my other, other 2 cents for a used revolver, which I do not recommend, and think you should buy a NEW Ruger instead:

Put hammer DOWN (no, not that hammer...the one attached to the gun). Then move the cylinder around: left-right-forward-back. You will know. This is the position when it fires. Some wobble is normal, but too much will get your attention. Compare it to a new one, to be sure. Lead and whatnot can be shaved off the bullet by a badly aligned cylinder, and if you think Muttly looks cute when his ears blow back from cylinder blast, you should hear him cuss when that wind is filled with flaming lead and copper!

Also see if the cylinder gap looks wide. Sometimes barrels get replaced, and one never knows. It could also be eroded, but unlikely.

---

Sig226, your advice is excellent. It is refreshing to hear it from an ex-retail salesman. Really good.

[Spktyr]

"Six for sure", my posterior.

Revolvers can fail to fire just as much as an automatic. They can have timing issues, mainspring issues, wear issues (i.e., not indexing the cylinder properly), and my personal favorite, failure to be able to reload because your ejector rod unscrewed while you were shooting and you can't get the cylinder open.

[PoorMuttly]

"It depends on what your definition of SURE is !!!"

How about a personal favorite, getting grit stuck under the extractor star, causing the cylinder to bind?

They never should'a stopped making swords.

[like these...and they laughed when I asked for a bayonet lug..!]

[PoorMuttly]

....and of course, Squantos' personal favorite...borrowing a revolver from Eaker!

[Eaker]

He always brings them back with a melted barrel too!

[PoorMuttly]

All part of the service.

You could hurt yourself with a barrel.

[Eaker]

You could hurt yourself with a barrel.

Jack Daniels is my friend.

I have finished many barrel's with him!

[PoorMuttly]

That would 'splain a lot, technically.

"But osficer...it's only corn...!"


[thread officially hijacked]