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Beating that queasiness: Straight, liberal and gun-shy about 'Brokeback'
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 1/15/06 | Dru Sefton

Posted on 01/15/2006 11:00:14 AM PST by TFFKAMM

It's true, the movie "Brokeback Mountain" does provoke what one researcher calls "a very strong ick factor" in some straight men.

What is it in this story of two cowboy pals in 1960s Wyoming who find themselves in lifelong love -- yet go on to marry women -- that elicits this response from heterosexual males?

The answers are as complex as the plot.

A psychologist who coined the word "homophobic" said the revulsion is precisely that. A scientist who discovered genetic links to sexuality said he simply does not understand the response. The author of "The Sexual Brain" said there is nothing on a neurobiological basis to explain the aversion.

To film fan Eddie Hargreaves of Stockton, it's more like the "ick" of romantic drama. "I'm not going to speak for everybody," he said, "but I don't know a lot of straight guys who said, 'Oh, man, I can't wait to see "Bridges of Madison County," 1995's famous tearjerker.

"Brokeback Mountain," directed by Oscar winner Ang Lee and starring box-office hunks Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal, is sparking both critical praise and water-cooler chatter. It's been nominated for seven Golden Globe awards.

But when movie critic Dave White, who is gay, wrote a humorous piece titled "The Straight Dude's Guide to 'Brokeback,' " "I got hundreds of messages, most of whom hated me for just existing," he said...

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: TV/Movies
KEYWORDS: alreadyposted; barebackmountain; brokebackmountain; drusefton; enoughalready; gay; hollywood; homosexual; homosexualagenda; ick; pudding
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To: drhogan

also, wyatt's brothers strongly object to his relationship with doc.
"it just doesn't look good wyatt--you being friends with a cold-blooded killer like holliday", or something to that effect.


161 posted on 01/15/2006 6:09:57 PM PST by drhogan
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To: ez

Actually research says it's partly due to genetics, partly due to stuff outside genetics, like the environment of the mother's womb or environmental/social factors growing up. You can think of it as people genetically inheriting strong inclinations to be gay, and they probably will be if other conditions are just right (hormone levels in the womb, for example).

But come on, I'm sure there are plenty of gay people who end up getting married to the opposite sex and having children anyway, especially in the past when there was more pressure to do so. I don't doubt at all that the genes are still getting passed on. It's all an interesting little paradox.


162 posted on 01/15/2006 6:29:08 PM PST by ChicagoGuy123
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To: durasell

the real, historical wyatt and doc were both straight. for all i know, the real curly bill was straight, too.
however, once these things get to hollywood, anything can happen.


163 posted on 01/15/2006 6:37:52 PM PST by drhogan
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To: durasell

You win. I wore out the replay button on my remote on that one.


164 posted on 01/15/2006 6:44:42 PM PST by beaver fever
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To: SuziQ
Hi SuziQ,
I think your daughter is brilliant, obviously...and I'd like to know the answer to "our" question, wouldn't you?
Thirsty
165 posted on 01/15/2006 6:52:28 PM PST by ThirstyMan (hysteria: the elixir of the Left that trumps all reason)
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To: SuziQ
A follow up thought:
The Gay gene should be as common as the Shaker gene wouldn't you say?
166 posted on 01/15/2006 6:57:11 PM PST by ThirstyMan (hysteria: the elixir of the Left that trumps all reason)
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To: Psycho_Bunny
"Sexual love is how nature and/or God gets the person with the penis to put up with the person without one - and visa versa - for the purpose of having offspring. That's it."

I would also add to this precise statement that sexual love is nature's way of helping said persons stay married during the raising of those offspring. It's "God's gift to Man." Thank you. (And I'm an atheist!)

167 posted on 01/15/2006 7:05:25 PM PST by The Westerner
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To: drhogan

There is the Western myth as portrayed in movies, books, song etc. and then there is the western history.

The myth is much more pleasant and is part of American culture.

The reality is often extraordinarily unpleasant. Holliday was a racist, murderous hoodlum who didn't live much past his mid 30s.

I prefer the fiction of Val Kilmer in Tombstone.


168 posted on 01/15/2006 7:33:05 PM PST by durasell (!)
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To: TFFKAMM

My favorite romantic dramas are 'Where The Red Fern Grows', and 'Old Yeller'.


169 posted on 01/15/2006 7:53:56 PM PST by Chewbacca (Hell knows no fury than fiery habenaro Dorito's eaten before bedtime.)
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To: durasell
"...was chasing what's-her-name...."

Sadie Marcus, the Jewish American Princess, daughter of a wealthy merchant?
(I can just imagine the conversations she had with her mother!)
170 posted on 01/15/2006 8:24:59 PM PST by investigateworld (Abortion stops a beating heart)
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To: investigateworld

Right. I think that was her...

If I remember correctly, they were married for like 60 years or something...she was of that type of women who cropped up every now and again in the 1800s. Many of them in the U.S. went west. In Europe, they married writers and poets. Mary Shelly was another. So were the Woodhull sisters in NYC.


171 posted on 01/15/2006 9:41:15 PM PST by durasell (!)
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To: durasell
Okay, the thread is shot to heck, so here's a piece of trivia for you.
What promoter underwrote Wyatt's saloon in Tonopah NV.
A New York hint: Madison Square Garden III was also a project of his.
172 posted on 01/15/2006 9:47:13 PM PST by investigateworld (Abortion stops a beating heart)
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To: investigateworld

I want to say Barnum -- but that's probably not right. I didn't even know he made it to Tonopah (great ghost town!)


173 posted on 01/15/2006 9:54:56 PM PST by durasell (!)
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To: investigateworld

p.s.

Josie's mother would have telegraphed back after hearing news of her marriage to Earp -- "So, what was wrong with the dentist?" Meaning Holliday...


174 posted on 01/15/2006 9:56:57 PM PST by durasell (!)
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To: durasell
Close, Tex Rickett. Remember we're talking about Garden III which was built in 1925.
(I can picture Earp's MIL "Oy, Solly Greenberg's son was crazy for her, but No0000oooO - she has to have a western legend)
175 posted on 01/16/2006 3:35:52 AM PST by investigateworld (Abortion stops a beating heart)
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To: durasell

i had forgotten about holliday's racism--didn't he kill some unarmed black union soldiers at a swimming hole?

i like both val's and kirk's interpretations. they both did wonderful jobs. i saw "gunfight" in the theater when it came out in the early '50's--i was a kid, and it had tremendous power.


176 posted on 01/16/2006 7:03:26 AM PST by drhogan
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To: drhogan

It was either soldiers or kids, difficult to know that kind of history. There was also another murder or two that pushed him "West."


177 posted on 01/16/2006 10:12:41 AM PST by durasell (!)
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To: durasell

what's so amazing about America is that people like Doc Holliday, Jesse James, and Billy the Kid (i had to include one New Yorker here) are so romanticized.
some people sure managed to get good press.

i just remembered (bringing the thread back to "brokeback" themes): i once saw an interview on tv with the actor cliff robertson, who had played cole younger in "the great northville raid" (i think it was called). Cliff claimed (and i'm honestly not making this up) that Jesse James was gay! i have never heard anyone else claim that. have you ever heard that particular claim?


178 posted on 01/16/2006 2:55:09 PM PST by drhogan
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To: drhogan

What happens is people get seriously twisted up in their thinking when they start mixing the reality with the myth. Yeah, everyone likes Doc Holliday, Billy the Kid and Jesse James -- but they probably were closer in reality to gangsta rappers than the clear-eyed rugged individualist, bad boys of books, etc. However, their myths remain of value as do the fictions they inspired. I believe that westerns -- books, movies, songs, poetry -- are a unique American artform, much like jazz.

The history also remains of value for obvious reasons.

What is interesting/ironic in the Brokeback debate is that the who deal is nothing new for McMurtry who is deeply interested in the wester myth as it relates to the 20th century. Horseman, Pass By (the movie Hud) dealt with it. As did The Last Picture Show (which by the way, had an extended scene of high school boys having sex with cows)...and, of course, Lonesome Dove.


179 posted on 01/16/2006 3:40:17 PM PST by durasell (!)
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