NOLA VS MONTANA and NORTH DAKOTA

FEW HOURS? These folks only had a few hours notice? TRY AGAIN!

These folks have been trained that everything will be done FOR them...glad you notice that.

As for the folks that want to help themselves...they start anew one day at a time. Just like everyone else that is dealt a fatal blow to the life they had before such a life changing event. That is what they do.

You only forgot to point out that, along with the blizzard and flood in 1996, much of downtown Grand Forks was destoyed by fire after the flood. The destruction of much of that city is why the Grand Forks mayor and support personnel have been advising the NOLA people about rebuilding. But otherwise, you're right; what happened to Grand Forks and several other towns that were destroyed was a merest blip in the news. And those people who WERE on TV just reiterated how grateful they were to have their families safe, that they were ready to start over, and how good people were being about helping out neighbors and strangers. I guess that's not as "newsworthy" as what people were saying about NOLA.

Just don't try to compare your issue to NOLA and somehow come out with the idea that you are better because of this example.

I wasn't drawing comparisons, I was posting facts.

You were the one who posted "those in the affected area aren't exactly wealthy", I'm saying New Orleans isn't exactly the affected area, it's the media that gives you that impression. Hurricanes or other such natural disasters don't give a rip about skin color or yearly income. You and several others can't make that distinction.

Your facts are a little out of whack with reality. You are comparing apples and oranges. A hurricane is the most destructive force on the planet outside of a tsunami or an earthquake.
They get more attention because the news media can actully get a crew there to cover it beforehand. Unlike the previous two threats.
While I hated the only blizzard I have ever experienced, blizzards for the most part are nothing more than a very large inconvenience compared to a hurricane. Few people die, and few homes or businesses are destroyed.
The parts of the country that experience the most hurricanes are thinly populated (obviously there are exceptions like New England) and rarely affect more economically important areas for more than a relatively short duration.
Hurricanes destroy entire cities and cause billions of dollars in damages and lost productivity every single year.

Who said anything about hours of notice? It's about the fact that most people aren't used to being stranded for a couple days on an overpass unless you are a survivalist. Our entire society has struggled for generations to improve our living conditions and when denied these conditions by nature it is a hardship, though obviously not worthy of FEMA assitance. That was for the lack of employment, shelter, clothing, transportation, access to bank accounts for weeks, healthcare, human dignity or simply food. For several hundred thousand people overnight.

This really isn't worth the time I'm spending on this and after I respond to your screed about oil availability and your derogative comments about people in NOLA I'm going to stop responding to you. I've made my point.

Actually, the Federal Government controls anything having to do with the levees. While locals have a great bit of say about the levees, they can't actually do anything that actually physically impacts the levee system without approval of the Army Corps of Engineers who are charged by federal government to oversee the construction and upkeep of the system. While the locals are pretty corrupt and seeminly incompetent, ultimately they are not fully in charge. Try getting a permit to work on an area controlled by the Army Corps. It is a major headache and quite expensive if wetlands or navigable waterways is involved.

Think of part of the money as a warranty payment.

Yes some refineries were offline for a short period of time but there was no interuption in overall supply. Care to say that isn't a fact? I would love to see you post something to the effect that supply itself was deminished. Cuz it wasn't for a whole host of reasons that inclue aid by other nations and reserve supplies here at home that were accessed. You know it and I know it so concede that point please.

Three days after Katrina the gas station at my local HEB grocery store was out of gas. It was less than 24 hours, but it had never happened before.

Explain to me how hundreds of gas stations across the country ran out of gas for a short period of time.

Explain why the prices shot up over 50% in some areas. I'lll bet you'll say it was a conspiracy among just about every distributor in the US. In case you didn't take an economics course rising price are in response to demand on a commodity. If there is less "available" the prices rise. Basic economics 101.

The importing issue is a true canard. We imported because stockpiles were becoming depleted. And we paid a dearer price for those imports also.

At least one Strategic Petroleum Reserve location was knocked off line for nearly a month after Rita. The one in Hackberry, LA an area of the state that is still limiting access to anyone other than home or business owners and authorities. This is a low level but undeniable threat to national security.

Supply is dependent upon many factors including quantity, but distribution is also a factor. Most of the refineries did not recieve major damage from the storm. But lack of electricity and lack of employees available made for very difficult distribution. The storm not only affected supply but because of difficulty in distribution it also affected availability which was a worse issue.

The national economy was affected by several months of significantly higher gas prices. The fact that our economy is strong enought to weather this issues is a tribute to its vitality. While it didn't in anyway shape or form cripple the economy it did blunt growth and employment.

Denigrate? I put it bluntl;y that folks got trapped in a place they were TOLD TO LEAVE FROM and you call that denigration? I point out that they made their OWN choice and now want to blame someone else and you call that denigration?

President Bush had to call both Govenor MeeMaw and Mayor Nagin and beg them to both declare a state of emergency and to order an evacuation of NOLA. The evacuation order came about 36 hours before the hurricane hit. The evacuaton plan for the city (even if it had been followed by the mayor) called for 72 hours to evacuate the city. Roughly half the time it would take.

It took nearly eight hours to get Baton Rouge from New Orleans before the storm hit. Baton Rouge is usually about 45 minutes from NOLA. The traffic jams prvented many from leaving. Most gas stations ran dry because of the demand and many people running low on gas simply had to go home or try and find alternative transportation.

Get a map. Notice that you can't go south. Notice you can't go east. Notice that directly north is a very narrow bridge that is some twenty something miles long and one single breakdown or a car running out of gas makes the bridge a death trap. There are limited breakdown areas on the Ponchatrain Bridge. That leaves I-10 as the only practical way out and it became instantly jammed.

Many people did actually try to walk out of the city. There really isn't any place to go that would get you out of the storm's path on foot, but that didn' matter because when they got to the bridge leading into Gretna, the sheriff's department denied them access to the bridge. At gunpoint. In the pooring rain. Ask Shep Smith about that one. It was reported as an act to deter looting.

The airport was shut down due to the wind and rain of the storm, but the airlines kept going as long as they could.

The facts are that while many people escaped the hurricane, many couldn't or wouldn't. Even though the emergency plan called for the use of city and school buses to be used to evacuate those who were unable to do so themselves they were not used.

It is true that many chose to stay behind out of lack or respect for Mother Nature or to protect their property from looters. We all saw that that was a legitimate issue. I don't have much sympathy for anyone on the Gulf Coast who stays behind when a Class Five hurricane is heading your way. That it was a high 3 when it hit was an act of providence.

To say that everyone was there by choice denigrates those who couldn't get out.

Denigration: To attack the character or reputation of; speak ill of; defame.

Maybe you will remember these highlights:

Did any of those that remained when the storm got there make ATTEMPTS to get out of there as they were warned to do? Exactly how do you call them victims? What is it you mean to push when you claim they are victims but people that experience blizzards are not? Both sets of folks know what is possible and one set does something about it and prepares for it while the other set sits on their butts and demands that others do things FOR them.

Or

If people had LISTENED to the warnings to get out of NOLA there wouldnot have been so many dead.....and OH YEAH i thought it was going to be TEN thousand!. I didn't see people walking out of NOLA and that means they didn't REALLY think they needed to leave

I'm sure that the people of NOLA who were trapped by circumstances or the actions or inactions of local government appreciate your feelings over the situation.

Or how about this bit:

That is the REAL victimization sir, the culture of do it FOR me cuz I cannot do it myself! NOLA exposed something all right, too bad some refuse to admit what it actually DID expose.....and it sure wasn't victims of any water related issue.

New Orleans is an old city that has known about hurricanes for it's entire history. To imply that they are stupid or culturally insufficient to take care of themselves is boderline racist. Please note I am not calling you a racist. I am merely pointing out your ignorant conclusions. Most people simply couldn't get out.

When the real damage occured in NOLA, it was after the storm had passed. The levees gave way the next day. The feeling in NOLA was that they had leaned on their deal with the devil and had once again dodged the bullet. Indeed, many people were already on their way back into town. The break in the levees took most inside the town by complete surprise. If you were in the lower 9th it was already too late to get out.

You have denigrated many of the people of NOLA by your implication that what happened to them was their own fault for not leaving. I have demonstrated to you that for most residents of the local parishes this is simply not true. While there are an unfortunately sizable number to whom this applies, you made no disctinction and painted them all with the same brush.

I really don't think you understand how hurricane tracking works. While they are slow moving, landfall cannot be done with pinpoint precision until within about 24 hours of landfall. Even this can be inaccurate. Katrina actually made landfall about 60 miles east of where it had been predicted just 8-12 hours earlier. While 60 miles may not seem like much, that distance is responsible for the majority of damage in New Orleans being water related as opposed to wind damage. If it had moved an even further 60 miles east we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I have refuted every issue you have brought up and I no longer intend to reply to your posts on this subject. I have already avoided finishing my spreadsheets for too long

It's about the fact that most people aren't used to being stranded for a couple days on an overpass unless you are a survivalist.

It is that many are not used to caring for themselves at any given time. It is a culture of 'gimme' and having things like housing, food, healthcare, among other things being provided for them for 'free' ( at taxpayer expense). It does not take a survivalist to prepare water and food stocks with days upon days of notice that a storm is approaching.

For several hundred thousand people overnight.

See that claim of overnight is incomplete at best. This storm, nor the flood, was something that happened 'just overnight'. It is false to claim that this was some kind of unknown impossible surprise where no action could have been taken beforehand. Seems to me that you attempt to omit the days upon days ,even weeks of warnings to get out of there. Not to mention the years and years of talks about what happens if/when NOLA does flood. This type of action leads me to the conclusion that you create an incomplete scene in order to deny the reality of this situation.

You claim dergatory statements made about people in nola, please post them and lets discuss the truth and merit of my statements and just see how your use of that word fails. Truth is truth sir, deal with it and accept it for what it is.

You claim again about an oil shortage. Where is it at sir? Yeah that is what I thought.

While locals have a great bit of say about the levees, they can't actually do anything that actually physically impacts the levee system without approval of the Army Corps of Engineers who are charged by federal government to oversee the construction and upkeep of the system.

So will you now claim that monies allocated by the federal government FOR one purpose (levees) were applied to those levees by the local officials when they got those monies? You might want to check on that eh?

You talk about a gas station close to you being out of gasoline. You know what, not one station was ever out of gasoline for even one second anywhere near me. That statement holds true for the overwhelming super majority of this nation. You seem to think that local issues mirror national ones. Take a look at how the prices here spiked, while NO overall supply was lessened. Shipping was interupted but that is far different than an issue of overall supply that would spike prices as it did. Sir, that supply problem just didn't exist. Nor does it exist today.

Explain to me how hundreds of gas stations across the country ran out of gas for a short period of time.

Lets have a list there partner. Across the country that did not happen. Lets have a source for that claim and lets have a list of these states where this happened. This is an example of an unsupported claim. This simply did not happen across the country as you just said.

Oil price in the market is determined by speculation. There was a speculation of shortages ( not an actual one when other sources were tapped) The price went up due to that speculation and not to due to actual facts. This is exhibited best by combining your statement that some rigs remain offline with the price of gasoline today. Is it 3 bucks today? NOPE! Why is that if there is this shortage in supply? Guess what, you just lost on that point and gas price today shows you that. Accept that for what it is. There was no overall supply shortage. There was an acute distribution problem, not an overall supply problem.

Tell me sir, how are oil prices determined? Simple supply and demand? Basic economics 101? If you believe that I have some ocean front property here in illinois to sell you!

Now you are coming around in this post. Distribution was a problem, that isn't a supply problem. As you say it is other issues like electricity and evacuation. Some local problems with distribution in your area does not equate to a supply problem in my area, that is the point you are trying to make and that dog just doesn't hunt. Exhibited again by the price of gasoline today and in addition the record breaking profits by oil companies in the aftermath of Katrina and Rita..

President Bush had to call both Govenor MeeMaw and Mayor Nagin and beg them to both declare a state of emergency and to order an evacuation of NOLA. The evacuation order came about 36 hours before the hurricane hit. The evacuaton plan for the city (even if it had been followed by the mayor) called for 72 hours to evacuate the city. Roughly half the time it would take.

Now, why would W have to call and tell blanco and nagin to issue evac orders if the federal government is in control and has authority? You contradict yourself with this statement. While this one is true your previous statement was not. Alot of folks took the news days and days before this because although it was not a mandatory order to leave, they saw the wisdom spouted to them about the coming storm. They made their own choice without being told exactly what to do. They recognized the danger that was afoot and they took action. They prepared. Are you trying to claim that not a word was said in the media about the danger of this storm until nagin and blanco finally ordered an evacuation? Cmon now!

Many people did actually try to walk out of the city.

I would like to see some evidence of that, got any? You try to talk about things that happened AFTER the hurricane and flooding as if it was action taken before hand in attempt to flee the coming storm. That is an instant of spin on your part by removing context. Lets see you show where people tried to walk out on foot prior to the storm or the flood. You cannot do that now can you? But they sure made their way to the superdome, HUH?

The facts are that while many people escaped the hurricane, many couldn't or wouldn't. Even though the emergency plan called for the use of city and school buses to be used to evacuate those who were unable to do so themselves they were not used.

Yes many listened and left. Most of those that didn't, did so by their own choice. The claim that hundreds of thousands "COULDN'T" is simply spin. Wouldn't is the accurate description for the vast majority of those that did not flee. Busses were not used, that is true. That rest in Nagins lap and Blanco's too. It sure doesn;t sit in W's lap.

Everyone able bodied person that stayed to weather the storm made that choice and they hold responsibility for doing so. I saw lots and lots and lots of people that fit that description at the superdome. Didn't you? I saw lots and lots of them on the I-10 overpass also. Even more of them looting stores. Like the cops at wal mart with filled shopping carts! This is not denigration sir, this is simple cold hard truth. Those folks should have been helping those that could not help themselves, like the folks in a nursng home that drowned as water levels reached the ceiling. Obviously my statement doesn't apply to them. Will you say this paragraph is denigration? Oh wait, you already have!

I'm sure that the people of NOLA who were trapped by circumstances or the actions or inactions of local government appreciate your feelings over the situation.

See, even you do it now. You mention blame for everything EXCEPT their own personal respobsibility of their own choices. The circumstances that trapped them were what? Lets explore that a minute. Their own choice is a circumstance. Their denial that this was a serious storm was a circumstance. Their not listening to the warnings being told to them was a circumstance. What other circumstances held them there? What was stopping them from leaving? Are you trying to tell me that because transportation was not brought to their door by the government they were trapped there? Cmon Now! They sure made their way to the superdome didn't they? Imagine that!

It wasn't the actions or inactions of the government that trapped them, it wasn't any other circumstance for the overwhelming super majorty that trapped them there...the two circumstances that kept them there was a culture of 'gimme' and their own choice to ignore the media, and ignore the masses of folks exiting prior to a madatory order to do so. Last time I checked this is a free country, these folks were not trapped by anything more than their own 'do it for me' mentality.

To imply that they are stupid or culturally insufficient to take care of themselves is boderline racist. Please note I am not calling you a racist. I am merely pointing out your ignorant conclusions. Most people simply couldn't get out.

They showed that they couldn't/wouldn't care for themselves sir, What part of that isn't true? They did not have water for their kids in ONE DAY. What they showed more clearly than anything is that they DIDN'T care for themselves. They DIDN'T prepare. How the HELL is that racist? Racist my butt, that is simple historical FACT. When comparing the deaths by % to population by % MORE white folks died than black folks. Overall numbers more black people did die but that fits because more black people than white people exist in the population to begin with there. You can take that racist crap and have lunch with Kanye West. It is bogus to bring that claim, 100% bogus. You cannot support such a claim with anything more than your personal feeling.

Sir, I do not need to imply anything. The facts show through for themselves. The vast majority of folks trapped in NOLA were able bodied and could have left if they had the desire and resolve to do so. The fact is that they just didn't have either. Again, this obviously seperates the able bodied folks from the disabled folks. Are you going to claim now that the majority of people remaining there were disabled? I would love to see you make that claim!!!!

You have denigrated many of the people of NOLA by your implication that what happened to them was their own fault for not leaving. Hogwash. It WAS their own fault! Truth does not denigrate. Pointing out truthful facts is not an attack. It's simply IS You fail to see the difference, don't you. If that hurts, TOUGH. Accept is for what the facts show. Facts show a majority of able bodied folks COULD have left if they had made the choice to do so. They didn't and that is their own fault. How can you claim it is someone else's fault? If you do, you are claiming that they were not allowed to leave without express permission. That is foolishness!

Your last paragraph demonstrates my point quite clearly. These folks took the ' its not gonna happen to me' attitude. After it did happen to them they then switched to ' its someone else's fault ' attitude. "They" didn't come fast enough. "They" didn't act properly. "They" are racist for letting black people set to die. "They" shoulda done more. "They" gotta do it FOR me. You make these same cases in your post.

You can claim to have refuted me all you want to. Thing is you refute with claims that the facts do not support. Ideology does not make the case for you. You must support your claims. Mine are well supported in history as we all watched this play out. You can ignore those facts if you want to. It will just show that you cannot refute what I have said with anything but claims that go unsupported by the reality of how this happened and what has happened as a result.

Where is the personal responsibility for folks that were able bodied? Do you really think that they hold none at all? Your post sure seems to push that agenda as you assign blame all over the place while you never ever mention those folks own personal responsibility. So tell me what responsibility do they hold for their own choices and decisions. What accoutning do you hold them to for their own actions ( or lack of them)?

Was blanco lying when she testified with this statement?

"The Democratic governor told a U.S. House committee investigating the government's response to the hurricane that mandatory evacuations were issued over two days before the hurricane struck so people in the lowest-lying parishes would avoid gridlock that could trap them in the path of the hurricane."

In all honesty, most people AROUND New Orleans, who also got hit, didn't carry on like a bunch of fools. Most of what America saw were members of the failed welfare state experiment which is inner city New Orleans.

Those of us in the rural ares didn't even know to expect something like FEMA till they and the military started showing up. We just hunkered down with our food rations and water to wait for the mess to be sorted out.

Also, a lot of people did lose their homes completely. A lot. I am guessing that blizzards don't take out peoples houses that much. There have always been hurricanes here. Normally, the winds die down and people pick up the pieces and move on, which in the past didn't usually include your entire roof, walls and all your possessions.

New Orleans is, technically an Island. That is why people didn't walk out. To the north is Lake Pontchartrain where the bridges collapsed. In the east is the Mississippi river and cops on the other side wouldn't let anyone from New Orleans cross over. The south is the Gulf.

To get out, one would have to walk west all the way around the bottom of the lake to the Kenner area which is about 20 miles away, get on i-55 and walk another 35 miles on a raised highway through nothing but swamp, just to get to anything resembling civilization. You would arrive there only to find that there were no services there either.

At that point, you are in the swamp with no services and would have to get back up on the raised highway, traverse ANOTHER 35 miles just to get to the next swamp town on the North Shore. Oh, and you can't get off this raised highway unless you have climbing gear and don't mind fighting the gators 20-30 feet below.

Besides, those trapped were bounded by floodwater on the western side so even if a person could have gotten through, that 80-90 mile walk with no food or water in the blazing heat would have done them in, probably.

When I speak of walking out I refer to the time prior to the onset of the storm and the flood that came afterwords.

Yes, I know that one plant that produces HEATING FUEL is still offline from Rita. It's going to be weeks before they are online again. So for all of you people in the blizzard, if it wasn't for us here a good lot of you would freeze to death.

According to everything I have ever seen it would appear that she was fibbing. But we live in an age were our leaders have the temerity to split hairs so fine as to say things like "it depends on what your definition of is is."

If she ordered the evacuation of New Orleans that early that is news to me. It is also 24 hours less than the emergency plan called for.

Conservative estimates indicate that around 1.5 million people were displaced by Katrina and the associated flood waters. I'm sure the good people of North Dakota are deserving, hard working folks...

but consider this....

Think about DOUBLING the current population of North Dakota and jamming all those good people into an area about 30 miles x 30 miles (a postage stamp compared to the actual 70,000+ square miles that North Dakota actually occupies). Now, when everyone's asleep, flood the area with up to 7 or 8 feet of water. Make certain that the water stays standing for a week or more. Take away people's electricity... their clean water... their sources of food... their phones... their toilets. Make certain that there's a decent amount of raw sewage, hazardous chemicals, and other dangerous substances floating in the water. Now take away most everyone's car (remember, they're all flooded). And even if they have a running car, take away the roads, because they're flooded too. Add into the mix several hundred (maybe thousand) dead bodies, and a temperature of 90 degrees or more. Finally, tell all those folks that they can't stay in or go back to their homes, to collect their worldly belongings, their pets, or even the bodies of their loved ones.

I've only begun to scratch the surface.

If the good folks of North Dakota could endure that kind of nightmare without pleading for help... well they're heartier souls than the rest of us.

As for Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson... I don't think North Dakota's 92% white population would require the endorsement of these two civil & human rights representatives. The 68% black population of New Orleans *DID* seem to need someone speaking up on their behalf... and it didn't seem to be coming from folks like Pat Robertson.

As for FEMA... yes, indeed they did respond to North Dakota's plight. After the snow storm, President Bush in coordination with FEMA responded to the snow disaster by making Federal funds available to designated counties in the State. Full, published details can be found on FEMA's own web site: http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=20798

I hope that this reply gets pushed "back up the ladder" to the North Dakota resident who wrote the original message. This kind of intolerant, uneducated rhetoric contributes nothing to the fence-mending this Country desperately needs.

The point of the original post was that some people are more self reliant than others, the extreme example of those incapable of taking care of themselves was exposed in NOLA.

The corrupt liberalism of NOLA has robbed a significant portion of the citizens of that city of their ability to be self-reliant, instead they are basically wards of the state whom rely on the handouts and good will of the government for their daily sustenance, living conditions, and overall welfare.

BTW, what kind of fence mending are you talking about?

Welcome to FR.

This response is directed primarily to the callous, arrogant ignorance demonstrated by the writer(s) of the "North Dakota News"...and to anyone who harrumphed in agreement with their ill-informed drivel...

While I am sympathetic to the motorists who were stranded in the recent blizzard "of Biblical proportions" (I'm still looking for any mention of a blizzard in the Bible), I am offended by the crass and mindless comparison with the unparalleled disaster that was Hurricane Katrina.

Let me begin by stating that we understand that most folks respond to what they see on TV, without investing further thought as to whether these images are true or accurate. I ask these people, consider when was the last time you got the "straight" story from the national news media? I freely acknowledge that all the bad behavior they covered is true: the looting, the gouging, the welfare-dependency, the venial, selfish laziness celebrated by the national media, and by the ND News, is all out there--and we are disgusted by it. However, in the worst case, these sorry excuses for human beings are very much in the minority. But you wouldn't know that by listening to "news" from North Dakota. I don't suppose you have any basket cases there, do you...

As for the straight story: My wife and I saw Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath up close and personal. We don't need to forward second-hand reports. We speak with authority. We lost our house and everything in it. We lost our whole neighborhood. Every neighborhood within 26 miles in either direction of us was erased...as in destroyed or rendered uninhabitable. Two whole towns were wiped out (Waveland and Pearlington). What is "wiped out?" More than 98% of the structures in the city limits and the near outlying areas were no longer standing.

According to Red Cross statistics--in Mississippi alone--there were over 68,000 homes destroyed and more than 65,000 so heavily damaged that they were uninhabitable, making a total of nearly 134,000 homes lost. We lost over 60,000 homes just in Hancock and Harrison counties.

Oh, as for our economy...you know, where the money for food comes from...over 100,000 jobs evaporated in eight hours: Two-thirds of the US shrimping fleet, eleven major casinos, the Northrop-Grumman shipyard (one of two major shipyards in the US), two Navy bases, an Air Force base, the Port of Gulfport (if your banana says Dole or Chiquita, it came through here), a major NASA research and test facility, a major NOAA weather and data processing center, and a DuPont plant. That's just the big stuff.

The "little" businesses got slammed, too. Two universities, a VA hospital, and one of the nation's two Armed Forces retirement homes were washed through. "Washed through" means while there might be something standing, you can see through the first two floors. I can't easily count the number of restaurants and smaller businesses that "used to be there."

Perspective:
>>Up here in the Northern Plains we just recovered from a Historic
>>event--- may I even say a "Weather Event" of "Biblical Proportions" ---
>>with a historic blizzard of up to 44" inches of snow and winds to 90 MPH
>>that broke trees in half, knocked down utility poles, stranded hundreds
>>of motorists in lethal snow banks, closed ALL roads, isolated scores of
>>communities and cut power to 10's of thousands.

Down here in Mississippi, we had 35 feet of salt water (that's 420 inches--water, not snow), driven by sustained winds of over 165 mph (the gusts were over 200 mph), and "lethal" waves towering 15-20 feet. Radar recorded several hundred tornadoes. Thousands of trees were ripped up by their roots and knocked down like matchsticks. Tens of thousands of trees were "snapped in half." The entire power grid in the southern half of Mississippi had to be replaced, including a large number of substations. 65% of the power grid in the entire state of Mississippi was damaged. In Mississippi alone, well over a million people (compared to only 642,000 people in the whole state of ND) were without power during weeks of 90-95 degree heat. 100% of Mississippi Power Co. customers lost power; 16 months later, 60% prior service has been restored. The other 40% of homes formerly served are gone.

Hundreds of thousands of cars were flooded and/or smashed. Roads weren't closed here, they were destroyed down to their beds. Major sections--miles--of US Highway 90 were buckled and overturned. The US 90 bridges over the Bay of St. Louis and the Bay of Biloxi were smashed like errant Lego blocks. The Interstate 10 bridges over Lake Ponchartrain and the Pascagoula River were also down.

When the almost-4 feet of snow melted, did these "hundreds of motorists" find all of their belongings strewn across the ravaged landscape? What little we found of our life's accumulation of treasured, irreplaceable mementos and heirlooms, we had to dig out of a 25-foot tall wall of debris. Well, I should say we searched the debris pile until armed National Guardsmen asked us to leave so they could remove corpses from the rubble...two of the "hundreds" of people who were killed--not snowed in--in Katrina. (Current body count hovers around 2,000)

More perspective:
>>Nope, they just melted the snow for water.
>>Sent out caravans of SUV's to pluck people out of snow engulfed cars.
>>The truck drivers pulled people out of snow banks and didn't ask for a penny.
>>Local restaurants made food, and the police and fire departments delivered it to the snow bound families.
>>Families took in the stranded people - total strangers.
>>They fired up wood stoves, broke out coal oil or Coleman lanterns.

In the houses that survived, there wasn't any running water for weeks. In neighborhoods still standing, there were boil-water notices for five months after the storm. Some neighborhoods still have boil-water notices, because the water and sewer system was destroyed, and all the water treatment plants were heavily damaged (I forgot to mention this earlier, it seemed so small).

Caravans of private citizens in fishing boats rescued people trapped in attics, and didn't ask for a penny.

Local restaurants would have made food, but there weren't many left. There was no power for weeks. People shared MREs and any other food they could find. We cooked over Coleman stoves and used hurricane lanterns for light. We call that fuel "kerosene" down here, by the way, not coal oil. Coleman lanterns were popular, too. The new gas bottles are great. Of course the trick was getting replacements. Most people had stockpiled emergency supplies in advance, but no one expected them to have to last so long. There was no gasoline to drive the 100 miles or so to the nearest stores for re-supply.

There was plenty of wood, though. FEMA estimates they removed 68 million cubic yards of trees and other organic debris...and they're not done yet.

Families not only took in stranded people, they're still living that way 16 months later. We stayed with friends for a month after the storm, then we housed another family for two months after that.

Oh yes, let's have a word about government assistance:
>>They did not wait for some affirmative action government to get them out
>>of a mess created by being immobilized by a welfare program that trades
>>votes for 'sittin at home' checks.

In Mississippi, neighborhood men with their own chainsaws cleared the roads and located survivors. Men and women in neighborhoods organized watch groups against looting. Neighborhood churches set up food tents and relief stations to triage the injured...those injured in the storm and those injured in the cleanup. I didn't notice any "sittin' at home" going on, and I didn't see anyone immobilized. I did see thousands of shocked and grief-stricken people receiving, gratefully, many forms of relief--not from the government, but from private volunteer agencies like the Salvation Army, Operation Blessing, and Franklin Graham's Samaritan's Purse. Yes, they were all Faith-based. The "government" did what government does best: send National Guard and Law Enforcement personnel from all over the USA, except, apparently, North Dakota.

Unfortunately, the "government" did what government does worst, as well: Trying to apply a one-size-fits-all aid package to a demographic that is as diverse as any in America. Of course there were going to be abuses and waste.

The question I have is, would either the response or the outcome be any better in North Dakota? Or anywhere else?

One other thing: In contrast to politicians in neighboring states, the governor of Mississippi was not incapacitated when disaster struck. He had the Mississippi emergency management effort in action--and effective--even as the storm chewed its destructive path through the middle of our state. Mississippi's Coastal Mayors rolled up their sleeves and dug people out even as they coordinated rescue, relief, and recovery efforts. If you want to see state and local government that works, just come on down.

I can't help responding to this one:
>>"I have noticed that once one gets north of about 48 degrees North
>>Latitude, 90% of the world's social problems evaporate."

I have noticed that once one gets north of about 48 degrees North, 90% of the world's PEOPLE evaporate. After checking the map, it looks like 90% of North Dakota gets left behnd, too. Maybe there's a correlation...

Hurricane Katrina was the worst natural disaster to hit the United States in its entire history. If you consider only the southern six counties of Mississippi, in isolation, Hurricane Katrina is STILL the worst natural disaster in US history. Never mind New Orleans. Comparing all that to a snow storm would be laughable, except that it exposes the ugly bigotry and arrogance of certain people, smug and far-removed from the suffering.

I have learned that disaster is the most revealing event in the human experience. It magnifies a person's character, for good or for bad. I have witnessed greatness in common people. I have seen corruption and weakness in the highly-placed. And vice versa.

The writer of this "Cat 5 blizzard" e-mail, and all who have agreed with it, have shown their true colors: petty, small, and self-congratulatory. These are the colors of cowards and bullies, not the self-reliant plainsmen they pretend to be.

Josef Stalin once said, "The death of one man is a tragedy; the death of millions is a statistic." The sheer magnitude of Katrina blurs perception. It isn't a million lives upended--it is one life upended, a million times over.

Have a Merry Christmas in your ivory tower.

"I used to complain that I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no class." Mark Twain