NOLA VS MONTANA and NORTH DAKOTA

12/14/2005 | unknown

[Leatherneck_MT]

For those of you who are not aware, North Dakota and southwestern Montana got hit with their first blizzard of the season a couple of weeks ago)

This text is from county emergency manager out in the western part of North Dakota state after the storm.

Amusing...

WEATHER BULLETIN

Up here in the Northern Plains we just recovered from a Historic event--- may I even say a "Weather Event" of "Biblical Proportions" --- with a historic blizzard of up to 24" inches of snow and winds to 50 MPH that broke trees in half, stranded hundreds of motorists in lethal snow banks, closed all roads, isolated scores of communities and cut power to 10's of thousands.

George Bush did not come.... FEMA staged nothing.... No one howled for the government... No one even uttered an expletive on TV... Nobody demanded $2,000 debit cards..... No one asked for a FEMA Trailer House.... No news anchors moved in. No looting No killing Jessie did not show up We just melted snow for water, sent out caravans to pluck people out of snow engulfed cars, fired up wood stoves, broke out coal oil lanterns or Aladdin lamps and put on an extra layer of clothes.

Even though a Category "5" blizzard of this scale has never fallen this early...we know it can happen and how to deal with it ourselves.

Everybody is fine

[BlueStateDepression]

We had record flooding here in 1993.....guess what.....no government intervention. People helped people. See how that works?

[wallcrawlr]

I like that you posted the income comparisons...maybe (probably) its the pride of being raised up here but I believe it makes us way more resourceful and even tempered. The winter and toughing it out year after year does that to people.

[BlueStateDepression]

Hey comstock I got a newsflash for you....per the constitution the President of the USA does not have the power to spend....that power belongs to CONGRESS. Maybe you might want to rephrase your 'big spender' rhetoric.

[BlueStateDepression]

Amazing what happens when people stand up and tough things out isn't it?

They become such productive and resolute people that take actions towards bettering the situation rather than just complaining about how foul it is that someone didn't come and do it all for them...not to mention pay for it all as well and really really not to mention that noone did it FAST enough.

[Petronski]

Yes. It's a contest and you've won. You're a better person than the average NOLA flood victim. Even the most superlative NOLA flood victim couldn't hold a candle to you.

You're the very best kind of person there is. I aspire to be even a third as good as you. Even a tenth!

Feel free to perform the superior dance if you like.

[BigSkyFreeper]

I like that you posted the income comparisons...

It certainly puts it into perspective. I guess while I have the Bureau Of Economic Analysis page open, I will note the average personal income rate in MS is $69,288/year, nearly 50% lower than LA.

[Tzimisce]

What's the difference? They're a blue state, you're a red state. Their suffering included a lot of minorities, yours includes a lot of white people and cattle ranchers. Shall I go on?

[conservatrice]

I don't know anything about the I-10 overpass. The overpass to which I was referring was the I-110 onramp in Biloxi. A man whose house we helped to fix had to run up the onramp to escape the flooding. He's 70-something, and something hit his leg (he's not sure what) but when we met him, his leg was completely bandaged up. But even so, he was carrying all of the possessions out of his house, wheel barrel by wheel barrel, all by himself. We told him to stop working, we would come and do it for him, but he insisted on helping us. He'd stop every once in a while for the swelling in his leg to go down, then he'd go back to work. We had the manpower and more importantly the tools to gut his house. It would have taken him forever on his own.
Opps, sorry I'm rambling now :) This man was really an inspiration to me.

[Comstock1]

I actually agree with most of what your philosphy seems to be, but some things are not possible to do locally.

By your logic you couldn't live anywhere in Florida--nowhere in the state is immune from a hurricane. You couldn't live in about 75% of California because of the threat of mudslides, forest fires, El Nino or earthquakes sending it into the Pacific (can't come fast enough for me). Washington state--Mt. St Helens anyone?

Anywhere north of Salina is obviously prone to blizzards. The Mississipi Valley will probably experience one of the largest earthquakes in history sometime in the next 100 years. In the early 1800s one changed the course of the Mississippi.

Where are you not prone to a major disaster in North America? Texas, New Mexico and Arizona historically have been prone to centuries long droughts. There are a large group of swarthy guys who want to blow up New York.
The East Coast from Maryland down is prone to hurricanes--it isn't just the Gulf Coast. Alaska--blizzards and one of the strongest recorded earthquakes in US history. Hawaii--Volcanoes and damned if they don't have hurricanes (typhoons) and the occaisonal Jap sneak attack.

Where is this mythical safe zone that you could live without worry of destruction on at least a minor scale?

The damage for the bill in NOLA and LA in general far exceeds the capacity for the state and locals to pay for it.

The fact is NOLA and the rest of Louisiana got off easy. A direct hit on NOLA and you really would have seen 10,000 dead bodies like Governor MeeMaw kept ignorantly spouting about.

The damage for the bill in NOLA and LA in general far exceeds the capacity for the state and locals to pay for it. It's fine to say suck it up and deal with it, but not everyone can. I would prefer not to have my taxes go to fixing NOLA on the grounds that this could easily happen again next year or the year after that.

If there is going to be a New Orleans (a whole different argument) then help will have to come from outside LA.

[BigSkyFreeper]

What's the difference? They're a blue state, you're a red state. Their suffering included a lot of minorities, yours includes a lot of white people and cattle ranchers. Shall I go on?

Irrelevant.

[BlueStateDepression]

See you cannot refute the simple truths I put to you so you attempt to mock me. Such a childish reaction to the messenger that stated some cold hard truth to you.

Attacking me personally doesn't change the reality I posted to you any more than the whining and crying does.

How about this, take a lesson from the folks up North. When weather deals you a crappy set of cards you either play your hand all in and accept the consequences or you fold and come back the next hand to play again.

I would listen to folks when they say weather is coming and I should evcacuate. I would walk if that is all i could do. Guess what, had people in NOLA REALLY wanted to get out they would have began walking and be Damn sure that busses would have come....the press would have been ALL OVER that.

This isn't about me being better than them. This is about me making better choices than them. They could make the same choices right? Or will you now argue that they could not make such a choice?

Your post attacking me as it does amuses me. It shows you have nothing of substance to offer in return besides such democratic strategy.

[BlueStateDepression]

I bet he was an inspiration. The I 10 i wa sreferring to was in NOLA where so many folks went to get out of water that was rising. Where they had no water or food. But they sure did pile up the garbage all over the place!

Masses had no water in the several days it took the feds to respond with rescues. That isn't the gubmint's fault. That is their own fault. Seems that older fella you met was thinking the same thing eh?

[Petronski]

You cannot tell the difference between last week's Montana/Dakota blizzard and NOLA's weeks of inundation with biohazardous water, and you call ME childish?

[wallcrawlr]

Excelsior Boulevard, west of Minneapolis after the Armistice Day Storm
Courtesy: Minnesota Historical Society

The Armistice Day Blizzard Ranks #2 on the Minnesota State Climatology Office Top five weather events of the 20th century. Ask any Minnesotan born before 1940 and they can tell you where they were during the Armistice Day Blizzard. The weather was relatively benign the morning of the November 11, 1940. Many people were outdoors, taking advantage of the mild holiday weather. The weather forecast that morning was for colder temperatures and a few flurries. Few people were prepared for what was to come. The storm started with rain, however the rain quickly turned to snow. By the time the blizzard tapered off on the 12th, the Twin Cities had received 16.7 inches of snow, Collegeville 26.6 inches, and 20-foot drifts were reported near Willmar. In all 49 Minnesotans lost their lives in this storm, many of them hunters trapped by the sudden turn of events.

[wallcrawlr]

But not all of us lived through the worst natural disaster in the nation's history.

Thats something that may never be truly known. Certainly, we always think what we've gone through today is the worst ever....but I wonder.

Its not meant to demean anyones experiences. Just to put things into perspective.

I was thinking about the drought years (weather related disaster) of the 30's, the dust bowl years. Those were certainly harsh times during the depression and it was a much larger national event. Compared to a more focused disaster in NO.

[Comstock1]

Wow, you're using an argument I use against Clinton. However, since you appreciate facts I'll lay a couple on you.

1) According to the document you qouted the President can propose a budget and Congress approves it or denies and creates their own.

2) Bush has proposed over $200,000,000,000.00 for disaster recovery on the Gulf Coast. That was before Rita. I don't know where the proposed limits are now.

3) Since Bush has taken office the federal budget has increased by over 20%.

4) Try and show me a spending increase veto by Bush and I'll show about ten times that many he should have vetoed.

5) Look at his spending track record here in Texas when he was governor. Same MO, spend your problems away. It's all about the compassionate side of conservatism you know. I prefer real conservatives.

6) Do a search about Bush's spending here on Free Republic. There are more than a few here who are mad about the spending issue.

7) Even if he didn't spend it (yet) he still proposed spending it. Implies he would spend it if he had it too spend.

8) Last time I checked he was the leader of the Republican Party. The GOP controls Congress. The leader of the party is responsible for what their party does. If he came out against the spending the GOP would most likely do it. Care to look up how many times this GOP congress has overridden a Bush veto?

9) I am in favor of small government and limited spending by that government. I think the amout of money that is going to New Orleans is actually obscene and the most of the problems could be solved by spending far less money-- probably less than half. However, I think a major amount of money needs to be spent that the locals and the state can't handle.

I'll stick by calling Bush a big spender. That's what you call someone who spends a lot. Or do you have another name for it, SIR?

[BlueStateDepression]

The difference I see is a group of folks that will do for themselves as opposed to a group of folks that wish to blame everyone else instead of doing for themselves.

Of course I see a difference in damage done. BUt you are now trying to omit the aftermath of katrina and all the blame game that was played at that time and all the blame game that is still being played now.

Take a good look at that part of it sir and then you will see where I am coming from.

Biohazard is a bit of a stretch and although i agree there was a level of contamination within it snow isn't exactly the cleanest of things either. But see that is semantics. I am not going there.

I will ask you this. Was it wrong for folks in NOLA to blame FEMA and the federal government for not getting them to a hot hamburger and a clean dry bed the following morning? THAT sir is what was EXPECTED!

This nation showed great aid to katrina folks as opposed to what pakistan has shown its people and as opposed to what Iran did after the BAM earthquake.

All you folks can do is claim how bad it is. How foul our government is for not kissing the booboo with money and making it all better.

Look man every person in this nation has a hard time sometimes. What seperates us is wether we take actions to make things better or we sit around complaining at people that ARE TRYING and blame them for not being good enough or fast enough when they aren't doing jack didly squat about it BEFOREHAND or Afterwords.

To be honest, it makes want to tell those very folks to piss off.

[Comstock1]

Last time I checked MOST people have never had to go more than a few hours without food or drink. Most have not been exposed to the elements for days at a time.

If this were a platoon of Marines I wouldn't really care that much. They have been trained for this and would have found a way out anyway.

All this is besides the point. How many of those people have been able to replace the car they lost or their houses or their jobs.

Yeah, every disaster has people who abuse the system by working some angle. New Orleans has more than most. Now what about the other 300,000 who have lost not only everything they ever owned, but even their means of livelihood?

[BlueStateDepression]

Yeah and according to that document the congress can over ride his veto. The congress holds the powwer of the purse strings partner and no blustering can change that a bit.

How did the Vietnam war end again? OH YEAH Congress took the power they hold and denied funding it any longer....the very same thing they could do today with regards to Iraq.

Question: who holds the power of the purse strings?
Answer: Congress.

Congress passes a budget regardless of what the president offers. See that yet? Spending is up it is on CONGRESS not the president.

Why would Bush veto budgets when congress has the votes to override it anyway. Are you really that new to politics? Cmon now. Get serious.

BUSH CANNOT SPEND SIR. He can say ' I want you to spend X amount on Y things, but without congress he cannot spend a dime. That is a simple fact my friend. Congress however CAN spend money outside any presidential authority whatsover with the veto override. Prove me wrong on that and I will withdraw my membership to this site. Simple as that. A president can allocate monies already appropriated by congress but then again we are at exactly the same point. CONGRESS spends and not the office of the president.

The Democratic party controls the Senate. The minority ALWAYS controls the senate. No they do not control the agenda in the senate but they control the up or down vote. After the judge appointments that went YEARS without a vote in the senate will you really sit here and claim the GOP was in control of that? Again I say Cmon now get serious!

I already addressed veto. There is reason to veto when congress holds the votes to override. Politically that is just never gonna happen.
If you really ARE in favor of smaller government and psending then by all means take this exchange for what it is. Me educating YOU to the fact that CONGRESS holds the power of the purse strings. You can shift the blame thru the stretching you have done in this post all you want to and to be honest Congress loves you for it.
You cannot change the simple fact that Congress holds the power of the purse.

Sir, call Congress the big spender then i will agree with you. When a President cann allocate tax dollars aside from congress as congress can aside from the president get back to me OK?
Sir?

[Comstock1]

You surely don't mean 120K plus. And this isn't from New Orleans. You have to remember there are two Louisianas (I could say three, but that's a stretch). You have New Orleans and then you have everything else.

I would say take away the household incomes from the reservations in that part of the country and median household income would rise sharply. I can't qoute as fact on that, it is merely a supposition.

I don't want in anyway to take away from the hardiness and self reliance of the people of the West and Northwest. I actually applaud you guys. NOLA could use more of that. Just don't try to compare your issue to NOLA and somehow come out with the idea that you are better because of this example.