Posted on 12/02/2005 12:39:19 AM PST by kingattax
If you argue this mall has a legal right to kick these people out, you're conservative. I never said anything to the contrary.
However, if you think this mall has a moral right and should be commended, you're something else entirely.
"However, if you think this mall has a moral right and should be commended, you're something else entirely."
Yes. A person with common sense.
They've offered them the same courtesy as the mall walkers get. They're not being 'kicked out', they're being offered use of the facilities before the paying customers get there.
If anyone thinks having non-paying customers taking up valuable seating space is a good idea in any way, shape, or form, not only are they not conservative, they're not using their brains.
I guess in your vision, it would be ok for the chess players to set up some tables in the middle of a home depot store, because some day they'd eventually buy something.
My "dream world" has something called probability. The chessplayers at Home Depot might make one or two purchases a year and they probably would have gone to Home Depot for those anyway. But the mall chessplayers would probably make one purchase at the mall for every five days of chess that they would have purchased elsewhere.
It's really sad when someone gets stuck on a wrong idea and starts making fun of the folks who correct him.
(Why do you think coffee shops set up wifi hotspots? Aren't itinerant laptop users pretty much the same as chessplayers?)
ML/NJ
Were I ignorant, why would it be alarming to you?
Laptop uses may or may not buy coffee. Your, "it's in the name," notwithstanding.
Similarly geezer chessplayers may or may not buy food. My guess is that not all brown bag it. Certainly if I were to show up to play I would be buying something. And I wasn't suggesting thinking that they were going to buy leaf blowers. I was thinking more along the lines of toothpaste, or Christmas presents. Malls sell that kind of stuff too. Maybe they should do away with Santa Claus too?
ML/NJ
---"It's kind of tough for (vendors) to see 15 guys sitting in the food court eating food they brought in from the outside," Bersin said.---
Keep ignoring reality.
The tables in the food court are there for the sake of the food vendors. Not other stores that may or may not be frequented to buy toothpaste or other items.
A restaurant owner can't pay his employees based on the revenue of other stores in the mall. Only his.
Keep ignoring reality.
You seem to believe everything you read. What did you think of this:
It's equally irritating, he added, "if you're a mother with a 3-year-old in your arms and you can't get a seat in the food court when you're tired or hungry and then there's a bunch of guys standing around being loud."Loud chessplayers? Have you ever played? Have you ever played somewhere where more than three games were going on at once?
ML/NJ
you seem to ignore, for some reason, that the chess players aren't buying from the restaurants in the food court. And that you can't pay food court employees with revenue from others stores.
Or is that why you keep changing the subject?
Like you stipulated, they had the right to do this.
If they are concerned about the continued successful operation of their business, they also had the obligation to do this.
Let's play a simple game of all or nothing: You take the situation to its maximum and minimum possibilities:
Maximum situation: All the tables in the food court are taken up by chess players, who do not buy from the food court.
Positive: Chess players are allowed to play for free indoors at the food court whenever they want.
Negative: Since no one can sit down to eat, food court loses most of its business. Employees are fired and stores close. Investors lose money.
Minimum situation: Chess players are allowed to play at the food court before mall opens. After that, they have to find a community center or other locaiton where they can play indoors.
Positive: Chess players get to play during early morning hours. Food court restaurants still get to serve PAYING customers throughout the day.
Negative: While the food court is open for business, the chess players have to find somewhere else to play. Oh, the horror. What mean bastards the mall owners are!
So, would you stipulate what would happen in the maximum and minimum scenarios is correct? Or do you have a problem with that basic truth?
Like you stipulated, they had the right to do this.
Listen Sherlock, it is not I who changes the subject, nor have I said anything about a right to ban chess players.
Your assumptions are childish and I think I'd rather stop playing.
ML/NJ
"I think I'd rather stop playing."
Because your assertions and your ability to back them up are rather pathetic?
If the owner of the food court wishes to post and enforce a policy of "No ouside food or drink", that would be within its rights. Likewise if it wishes to post a restriction against loitering during peak hours.
On the other hand, if it becomes well-known that one can usually find a 'pickup game' if one goes to the mall on Saturday between 1:30pm-closing, I would expect this would probably tend to draw people to the mall who would otherwise not go there. While some people would not buy any food or beverages there, others would. Given that malls often spend a lot of money on advertising and special-events programming to entice people to visit, using chess as a draw would be a comparative bargain.
How about: Intermediate situation: Chess players are allowed to use half the food court before 11:30am and after 1:30pm (or, on weekdays, 1:30pm-5:00pm and 7:00pm-close). Since half the food court tables are apt to be otherwise idle during those times, the players' existence would not interfere with restaurant operations. On the other hand, if the mall gets a reputation as a good place for 'pickup' chess, people might visit (and buy a beverage or two) who would otherwise not.
"Given that malls often spend a lot of money on advertising and special-events programming to entice people to visit, using chess as a draw would be a comparative bargain."
And, despite your flowery theory, the restaurant owners have decided, based on, get this - actual experience - that it is not only NOT a bargain, it's actually harmful to their business.
I can't believe so many people stand up for these whiners who think they're in some way entitled to sit at tables reserved for paying customers and not buy a damn thing.
Agreed; I would actually add tables to the area, and encourage all the chess players I could. Would be a better class of customer than the usual teen rats that hang out.
In our neck of the woods, malls are struggling for traffic, and the empty stores out number the occupied. Let em play chess.
I would not doubt that having many people playing chess at 12:30pm could be bad for business. But it seems the owner's cutback was more severe than I would think necessary.
and remarkably, you've likely never been to the food court in question, yet you second guess the ones who actually run it.
I always wondered what happened to miss cleo.
I don't play much now. But when I was younger I used to play down in Washington Square (NYC) sometimes. My recollection is that there were the usual pushcart vendors and some of us bought from them. I think if I knew that there was a reasonable chance that some decent chess was being played at a mall near me I would at least go and have a look, and I certainly would not bring my own food.
ML/NJ
It was free, warm/cool and convenient. I don't blame the chess players to try and be there for as long as they could.
I also don't blame the mall for removing them for most of the day. They are their to do business, not be a free retirement center for cheap chess players who don't pay rent or patronize the food court.
Worse even yet, they are loud and more than likely are crass at times. Women with the kids shopping don't need that.
Let them go to the hall of some park and do their thing.
Or go to some city rec center for free.
Good for the mall.
I hope that he remembers making them old men leave when he gets OLD and it happens to him.
so what they play chess maybe if he would not be sooo uptight he would see that it adds character to the MALL.
He should "ADOPT" them as grandparents and communicate with them he would probably change his mind.
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