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1 posted on 10/21/2005 10:57:02 AM PDT by Sam Gamgee
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To: Sam Gamgee; nicollo

Nic, you are a history buff (albeit American history); do you have any insights on this to share?


2 posted on 10/21/2005 11:03:45 AM PDT by Jemian (This world is not my home, I'm just a-passin' through)
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To: Sam Gamgee

What Cromwell's forces did to the Irish can't be revised to make it pretty.


3 posted on 10/21/2005 11:18:14 AM PDT by RasterMaster (Proud Member of the Water Bucket Brigade - Merry MOOSEMUSS!)
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To: Sam Gamgee

Whatever you do don't go by the movie.


4 posted on 10/21/2005 11:40:37 AM PDT by whershey
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To: Sam Gamgee

Militarily, he was exceptional. He professionalized the Parliamentary forces he commanded, and was one of two, IMHO, great commanders of the English Civil War [the other being Prince Ruprecht]. That being said, he overthrew the Parliament he went to war for, and established a dictatorship. As was posted above, what he did to the Irish wasn't pretty. He was also one of the driving forces behind the deicide of Charles I. A mixed bag at best.


6 posted on 10/21/2005 12:26:23 PM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: Sam Gamgee

Senior moment alert. Deicide = Regicide


7 posted on 10/21/2005 12:27:08 PM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: Sam Gamgee

Sam, here's a link to an audio series on The History of the Reformation; within this series, you'll find SEVEN HOURS of lectures regarding the history of Olivor Cromwell.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?currPage=2&keyword=chalcedonpresbyterian&SourceOnly=true&currSection=sermonssource&subsetcat=series&subsetitem=History+of+the+Reformation&AudioOnly=false&SortBy=

I think that if you listen to this series, you'll find a fairly complete history of Olivor Cromwell; and that he has been a much maligned historical figure.


9 posted on 10/21/2005 1:25:10 PM PDT by Biblical Calvinist (Soli Deo Gloria !)
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To: Sam Gamgee
The British public threw out Cromwell and brought back the Stewarts – but was this simply a negative reaction to the beheading of a king – which was a little too much for the English public to stomach?

My ancestors spent a lot of years living down that "Killing the King" thing. Leveler Bump.

17 posted on 10/21/2005 11:15:24 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Mesocons for Rice '08)
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To: Sam Gamgee

could have sworn there was a recent discussion of Cromwell around here. Oh well.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a6605427caf.htm

Cromwell was a Puritanical tyrant. He made do with Parliament, but eventually couldn't get what he wanted, and dissolved it. Since he controlled the armed forces he could make that stick (unlike his predecessor, Charles I). For these reasons he's regarded as the first modern dictator.

After his death, Parliament appointed his son Richard Cromwell as Lord Protector. That didn't work out. The Parliament tried direct rule, as The Commonwealth, for about a year. Then it sent out feelers, and the impoverished Charles (soon to be Charles II) was invited back. He demanded (and got) some specified sum. It was delivered to the deck of his ship (a ship on loan from some mainland monarch), where he flipped open the lid, and spent a while just running his hands through the loot.

Upon his return to England, Chuck had Ollie's body exhumed and "punished" in various ways for regicide. The old crown of Charles I and a number of his predecessors was never found that I heard of. Possibly got melted down for coin, although one of the Sherlock Holmes mysteries revolves around the hiding place. Perhaps it was hidden, and everyone who knew where either got killed or exiled.

some BBC stuff on Cromwell:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/state/monarchs_leaders/cromwell_01.shtml


18 posted on 10/21/2005 11:19:47 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Sunday, August 14, 2005.)
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To: Sam Gamgee

I confess -- I know little about Oliver Cromwell that I didn't learn from Monty Python. Then again, I suppose that's more than most people...


23 posted on 10/25/2005 7:43:31 PM PDT by MikeD (You can argue with your Maker, but you know that you just can't win...)
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