Nuclear Space Ship SSTO Proposal

NuclearSpace.com ^ | None given, Historisal | Anthony Tate

[RightWhale]

Ted Nace suggests applying Asimov's three laws of robotics to corporations. Why not, we created both, we ought to be able to control both.

[NicknamedBob]

Case law and precedent would appear to be against us.

Since it is clear to you and to me that there is money to be made in outer space ventures, it only remains to make an appealing case to the mindless entities with the singular purpose.

"There's gold in them thar asteroids!" Among other things.

[RightWhale]

Yes, they are mindless entities. Automatons. It was the work of only a handful of men to create the modern corporation out of the slim guidance of the Constitution. All railroad men, and none of them enriched themselves unduly [Tom Scott possibly excepted] even if their client corporations, Southern Pacific or Pennsylvania Railroad, grew to be the largest mega-corporations of their day. The railroads gave or decreed the time zones--a demonstration of raw power--, but Congress to a degree regained the battlefield by imposing Daylight Saving Time on top of that.

[NicknamedBob]

I'm thinking the closest parallel would be the fur traders of the new world, or perhaps Hudson's Bay Company.

The trappers took the risks, braved the arrows, and eked out a living, while the merchant princes lived a comfortable life of imported luxuries.

But it was the men who went in search of the unknown, instead of fortune, who have ended up gracing our tales of romance and adventure.

Given a choice of a well-appointed suite in the International Space Station Grande Hotel, or a little four-seater scoutship out among the asteroids, I know what I would choose.

[RightWhale]

The fur traders and other commercial enterprises, English and Russian, Hudson's Bay, Virginia, were all chartered, crown charters and other oligarchical and aristocratic family charter companies. East India Company. The elephant in the room is corporations. The whole New World thing was corporations. The closest thing you might find to what you are probably looking for is the Plymouth Colony, and that is the model I think most likely to colonize Mars--a religious organization, monastic in some ways, but still corporate with private property rights.

[solitas]

How big a hole in the ground is this thing gonna leave behind it on liftoff?

[Steve Van Doorn]

You may have an easier time building this through private industry, they could set up shop in some remote location (none US territory) that would allow nuclear testing to take place.

It is a great idea though.

[tricky_k_1972]

You may have an easier time building this through private industry, they could set up shop in some remote location (none US territory) that would allow nuclear testing to take place.

It is a great idea though.

I frankly wouldn't care who set it up or where it was set up, as long as it's not some nation hostile to the U.S. that does it first.

If it gets built I don't thing the greenies could stop us from building it once it is proven to be safe, and getting it built is all that matters.

[tricky_k_1972]

How big a hole in the ground is this thing gonna leave behind it on liftoff?

Well if you take the Saturn V as an example (of which this is loosely based off of), then not any. There are several ways of diminishing the thrust such as high pressure water diffusion and redirection of exhaust.

[tricky_k_1972]

I've actually read several SF books that pose just that. I think in one book it was the Hindus and in another was the Catholics (I.E. New Vatican).

[solitas]

Well if you take the Saturn V as an example (of which this is loosely based off of), then not any. There are several ways of diminishing the thrust such as high pressure water diffusion and redirection of exhaust.

---

"This engine produces 1,200,000 pounds of thrust, with an exhaust velocity of 30,000 meters per second, from a thermal output of approximately 80 gigawatts. ... With our engines giving 1.2 million pounds of thrust, we need at least five to get off the ground. But, since we have the power of nuclear on our side, we will use seven engines instead of five. ... With seven engines, we have a thrust of 8.4 million pounds available." [with 560 Gw of heat and 30 km/sec exhaust velocity]

Is gonna equal a BIG hole. :)

[SunkenCiv]

Ping!

[SunkenCiv]

The F-1 engine produced 1.7 million pounds of thrust, and the five-F1 Saturn V put circa 150 tons into orbit. This proposed booster would have five 1.2 million pound thrust engines, and would put over six times as much into orbit. This makes me a little curious, but I'd hazard a guess that the greater payload to orbit comes from dropping the weight of the Saturn V fuel components. (?)

[SunkenCiv]

seen it?

[vannrox]

Thanx for the ping. Hope for the future?

[RightWhale]

So long as the thrust is enough to lift the assembly off the ground, the overall performance will depend on specific impulse. A nuke powerplant would have a lot more specific impulse than the chemical powerplant, which results in much more payload. Specific impulse has units of seconds and is called I_SP or something similar. A way of thinking about I_SP is how long the powerplant can produce that thrust. The chemical rocket will run out of fuel while the nuke will still be blasting away for a lot longer.

[SunkenCiv]

Yeah, the amount of propellant can be smaller, provided the impulse is caused by the heat from the nuclear reaction. That could greatly cut the amount of propellant needed, which of course is reduces the overall weight, making the propellant used even more effective... Asimov's fictional rockets (the more or less conventional ones) used nuke-powered steam engines, and his explanation was that the mass*velocity of the propellant almost equals the mass*velocity of the craft (in any design using propellant), so less propellant going faster is the same as more propellant going slower. :')

[SunkenCiv]

"Hope for the future?"

Maybe, if someone here hits MegaMillions. ;')

[RightWhale]

That's right. Less fuel is needed, and then less weight needs to be lifted because there is less fuel. The multiplier effect.

[boris]

No one will ever let you launch a live nuke from the surface of Earth. It'd be dicey launching a cold space engine as a payload.