David Gold is surprised that freepers are supporting FDR/LBJ-scale Katrina spending

David Gold Show ^ | Sep 18 05 | David Gold

[churchillbuff]

Yesterday on his radio show, conservative talk host David Gold said the proposed massive federal spending for Katrina "relief" is a TIME OF TESTING FOR CONSERVATIVES. Do they really believe in small and efficient government - - or will they accept socialist-scale big spending as long as it's proposed by a Republican president?

Gold said he was surprised and disheartened to find many posters on FreeRepublic.com making excuses for the huge proposed spending. Bet they'd be sounding a different tune if Clinton were president and he had proposed it!

[Peach]

Don't lecture me.

[slowhandluke]

At $200 billion, we could just give every displaced family a check for $400,000.

And rebuild the infrastruct, the ports, etc, that way? That analysis was pretty stupid.

On the contrary, I think it was spot on. $400,000 is plenty for the families to relocate someplace that doesn't need the infrastructure rebuilt now nor every few decades.

Let commercial interests rebuild the port, and either pay for higher levees or pay to rebuild every few decades.

Zone the whole area to be limited to oil and fishery support, anybody else is there at their own risk. (Not that I like zoning, but I hate paying for somebody else's stupid risk taking.)

[Paradox]

No, the analysis was STILL stupid, because the 400K included the infrastructure price. That figure should have been calculated w/o the infrastructure included, and THEN your analysis would be correct.

[churchillbuff]

We'd all hoped your banning was permanent. """

I'm sure you hoped that. You don't believe in freedom for views that differ form yours.

[JeffAtlanta]

No, the analysis was STILL stupid, because the 400K included the infrastructure price.

I think 'stupid' is a strong word for that. You have been really civil on this topic so it's no big deal. :-)

The point the original poster is trying to make is that you have $200 billion being allocated for the well being of X number of people. Whether that money goes directly to the individuals or is spread out to cover their infrastructure needs (besides the port), it's still be used for the benefit of that group which is why it can be calculated to be $400,000 per person.

The argument can certainly be made that port benefits the nation and not just the local residents and that is true. However, private insurance claims and commercial investment would easily rebuild the port without any federal money.

In effect the federal government is rebuilding a port that they don't need to - it would be taken care of without their help. Since the federal money to rebuild the port isn't needed in the first place, the $200 billion is actually just going to the local residents.

Also, any building with a mortgage was almost certainly properly insured due to requirements by the lender. Insurance companies have over $400 billion in reserve and can handle the legitimate claims with no problem.

Also, those that were poor (the ones everyone is using for the poster child) almost certainly didn't own property in the first place. It is not clear why the federal government feels the burden to replace a home that they didn't have in the first place.

[slowhandluke]

Private industry will not fund the infrastructure (ports, roads, seawalls, etc.).

If there's sufficient money to be made, you'll have to beat them off with a stick. If there's not enough money to be made, then it's not a good idea to do it in the first place.

And private industry will do nothing to incent those at the edges to home ownership or to open small businesses.

If government incentives are needed for these, maybe they aren't smart ideas (under the current tax regime.)

If they need more government incentives to do this in the Gulf Coast than in the rest of America, maybe they should move away.

[Peach]

What I don't believe in a constant Bush bash. In your view, the president is at fault for everything.

[churchillbuff]

What I don't believe in a constant Bush bash"""

What you want is the banning of people who don't agree with you. That's called authoritarianism. I've never once asked for anyone to be banned from FR, whether or not I agree with them. I get the impression you make it a habit to put in such "ban him!" requests. Like the Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland -- "Off with his head!"

[churchillbuff]

Since I've been at FR longer than you (I started criticizing Clinton on FR in March of 1998), it would be ironic if you, who came later, succeed in getting me banned because I'm sticking to the conservative principles that brought me here in the first place.

[Peach]

Huh? You sound delusional.

[slowhandluke]

I was actually thinking more of the levees and whatever other "water" structures went kaplooee during this storm. I understand that part of the disaster can be attributed to a lack of funding to maintain these structures. And the principal entity responsible for those structures is the Corps of Engineers -- i.e. federal.

It's Federal money, but state directed. LA got 1.9 billion dollars last year for Corps of Engineers projects. They chose not to use it to improve the New Orleans levees.

[Godebert]

"I'd rather spend money to rebuild NO than all that other crap he does, so that he can be seen as a "compassionate" conservative."

Ya.....it's easy for Bush to be a "compassionate" conservative while spending other folks money. He makes Klinton look like a real spendthrift.

[NathanR]

ping

[null and void]

New tag line

[NathanR]

LOL

[bert]

....we are all poorer as a result of the hurricane ....

Yes I am or rather was, a glazier, or more correctly a glazing contractor. My trade is but one of many involved in the construction process.

I understand your argument and the concept of universal loss, but I disagree with the applicability to the situation at hand.

I think of gross domestic assets, like gross domestic product. It is a measure of real national assets, private and public. At the time of the hurricane it had an instantaneous finite value. The assets were valued by the market at some momentarily fixed value. After the hurricane many of these assets were gone and the GDA was reduced.

As soon as recovery began the GDA began to increase and will continue to increase for some long indeterminate period. This increase will result in a change in the GDP. The goods and services produced for the affected area will benefit the economy as a whole.Glass manufactured here in Tennessee will flow through the distribution channels to glaziers who will fix broken windows and take part in perhaps the biggest construction boom in history.

These are not all maintenance functions as in your broken window example, these are creation of new assets replacing and superseding the old. All of the old were depreciated, some severely. The old assets are gone, off the books with no salvage value and no continued depreciation. The new Assets will be more valuable than the old depreciated assets. The Gross Domestic Asset value will be very much greater than before.

You noted a governmental function where the result is a decline in the relative value of the currency. There is another source of funds, created from thin air, and that source is bank loans. Long term financing will be obtained to create the new assets. The money will flow through the economy creating GDP, jobs and wealth.

The influx will energize the economy spelling doom for the Rats in '06 and '08.

[bert]

see my #236

[MikefromOhio]

With regard to Katrina, what is your solution?

Let them eat cake would be my guess.....

[davidtalker]

I apologize to everyone. Just getting to this thread now as I prepare to do my show for WBAP-DFW.

I did indeed voice disappointment that so many Freepers would support this colossal boondoggle. I am very concerned this will split Conservatives down the middle. This thread illustrates just that. Some of you do the knee jerk thing. "Gold's buying into MSM rants". Or what is he some Third Party guy or Buchannite?"

Nothing could be further from the truth. I have supported this President as vigourously as anyone behind a microphone. However, I want my President back. I didn't elect a President who has morphed into LBJ or FDR. Even the Libs (see Krugman) are calling this a "New Deal Style Program." This is what I wrote on my website. You can follow the link there. In the meantime, think about this. Yesterday I had Dr. John Berthoud on the show. He's President of the National Taxpayer Foundation. I've been impressed with these folks for years. Berthoud told me he had recently had dinner with Oklahoma Senator Tom Coburn. Asked Coburn about "rebuilding"the Gulf Coast with Federal dollars. Coburn's reply was No. I'm a Conservative First. Republican second. Time to choose sides gang. I have not sweat blood for decades now for the notion of less government, lower taxes and personal freedoms to have that work swept away by a storm. Nothing has changed. Storms come and go.

Government is a necessary evil. Underline evil. Every dollar the government takes from you is a dollar less freedom you possess. I remember reading Hayek, Friedman, Mises, Rothbard, William Simon's "A Time For Truth", Ringer's "Restoring The American Dream", Gilder's "Wealth And Poverty",Adam Smith, Michael Novak's "Spirit Of Democratic Capitalism, et al. These are the foundations that brought us where we are today. A hurricane doesn't negate their truths. I will not let my heart rule my head. I will not allow Republicans to steal away the dreams of the Conservative Movement.

The Gulf Coast will be rebuilt. It will be rebuilt by the American people and the Free Markets. Government can provide infrastructure. Then get out of the way. I will not support a modern day Keynesian WPA-like program that will be everything we have pointed towards as being government failures over the years.

I voted for President Bush. I like him very much as a person. He's got a great heart. His obsession of wiping out the threat of Islamofacism I share. It's the role of government to provide national defense. It is not the role of government to hand out debit cards used at Hooters.

[onyx]

On some nights, I can pick up your show from here! I am thrilled.

Please give my best to your sweet wife.