Posted on 09/09/2005 11:33:57 AM PDT by airborne
As for Lecavalier, hey, give him a break, he was a little bit of a late bloomer. I doubt that Tampa regrets how things turned out.
Look, I'm not denigrating Kurri or Stastny. But let's not forget that they both were surrounded by a lot of talent. In Kurri's case, there was some guy named Gretzky helping him out. For at least the first 5 years of his career, Lemieux was a one man gang. Mario made a 40 goal scorer out of friggin' Warren Young! Or as we used to call him, "Scorin' Warren", 'cause we knew the guy was a joke. Hell, I could've scored 20 playin' with Mario...
You make good points about Stastny. Like I said, I have nothing against the guy. But consider this: during his career, Lemieux must have missed the equivalent of 3-4 years because of his back. And much of the time, he played in great pain. The Pen's trainer used to talk about putting Mario on a table, lacing his skates on for him, picking him up and pointing him toward the tunnel, and he'd go out and still be the best player on the ice. Can you imagine what his totals would have been if he had been healthy his entire career? I realize that there's something to be said about durability. Still...
Well, I gotta admit, you got me on this one: who the hell was Odie Cleghorn? Chrissakes, I'm not that old!
Was Bobby Orr a better all-around defenseman than Doug Harvey? Ray Bourque? Guy Lapointe?
Yes, yes, and yes. One year he was something like +121! You ever see film of this guy in his early twenties? I remember when CBS had hockey on every Saturday afternoon in the U.S. I remember seeing Orr picking up the puck behind the net and starting a rush up the ice. And I remember the crowds in the old Boston Garden would just roar. He changed everything about the game. To have that kind of imagination, to do something that nobody ever thought of, that counts big time for me.
And Howe is certainly in anybody's top five. But you can't say he did anything that nobody else did; he just did it better than almost everybody else.
LET'S GO F L Y E R S !!!
Do I sense envy??? :-)
LET'S GO F L Y E R S !!!
Lemieux was no different. He was a dominant offensive player from the moment he stepped on the ice in the NHL for the first time, but he didn't win a championship until seven years later -- when he was surrounded by lots of talented players. By my count, Pittsburgh's two Stanley Cup teams included a total of 7 potential Hall of Famers in addition to Lemieux, including Mark Recchi, Joey Mullen, Jaromir Jagr, Paul Coffey, Ron Francis, Bryan Trottier and Larry Murphy. Add a top-notch goalie like Barrasso to the mix, and those were some really phenomenal teams!
I've often said that I wished Lemieux could have played 15 straight injury-free seasons, just to see how could he could have been. His most remarkable accomplishment may have been one that you don't hear very much about. It was back in one of the early years of his career when he scored a "Quintuple Crown" of five unique goals in a single game againt my Devils -- one even strength, one on the power play, one shorthanded, one on a penalty shot, and one at the end of the game into an empty net. I can almost guarantee you that this had never been done before and hasn't been done since. It's probably about as rare as a baseball player turning two unassisted triple plays in one game.
Again, I can't really agree with you on your point about Lemieux. Most of those guys you mention came to the Pens around '89-90 or after(the exception being Coffey, who was there in '88-'89, I think, I'd have to look it up).
We could argue these things endlessly, but one thing you can certainly say about Gretkzy and Lemieux is that they made everybody around them better.
By the way, I was watching ESPN this morning, and prettyboy Barry Melrose was on talking about Messier's retirement. Melrose listed his top five of all time:
1)Needle-nose Wayne
2)Bobby Orr
3)Messier
4)"Senior Citizen Discount" Howe
5)Mario
I'd flip Orr and Wayne-o, and Messier and Lemieux, and go with that...
By Joe Starkey
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Friday, September 16, 2005
At one point Thursday, the Penguins' cramped Mellon Arena dressing room felt like a 1991 Stanley Cup team revival. No fewer than eight members of that club - Mario Lemieux, Kevin Stevens, Troy Loney, Phil Bourque, Bob Errey, Mark Recchi, Randy Hillier and Joe Mullen - were scattered among at least 15 reporters, a few television cameras and a bunch of sweaty hockey players.
But this day was not about remembering past glories. It was about reveling in the future, which, for this franchise, can be summed in two words.
Sidney. Crosby.
'The Kid,' as he has come to be known, finally played his first few periods of competitive hockey in front of a Pittsburgh audience, and I am here to tell you that life will never be the same.
Yeah, it was only a training-camp scrimmage. That's beside the point. If you'd seen the expressions on the faces of men who have been playing and/or watching hockey all their lives, you'd understand that Crosby is something different.
Something special.
If you'd seen Mike Yeo's face, you'd understand. An assistant coach with the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins, he coached Crosby's team in the scrimmage.
Afterward, he looked like he'd seen a ghost.
Yeo spotted the Penguins' European scout, Mark Kelley, and said, "That's the first time I ever saw him play," in the same tone of voice as the kid in "The Sixth Sense" said, "I see dead people."
The beauty of Crosby is that he will appeal as much to the hockey novice as to the purist. The novice will cheer for his goals and flashy passes, the way a few hundred fans did yesterday. The purist will marvel at the nuances of his game.
Stevens, now a Penguins scout, laughed and shook his head when asked about Crosby's three-assist performance. He spoke of Crosby's remarkably quick and soft hands.
And he mentioned the burst.
"Two steps, and he's gone," Stevens said. "He's like a Russian-style skater."
Michel Therrien, the hard-edged Wilkes-Barre/Scranton coach, actually said, "I sit here in my seat like a fan when that kid's on the ice."
Errey, the Penguins' television analyst, and a guy who doesn't blow smoke, said, "He's one of best passers I've ever seen."
That was evident when Crosby accelerated into the offensive zone, snatched a loose puck and at full speed chipped a pass over a defenseman's stick to Jonathan Filewich, who blasted a shot past Sebastien Caron.
Later, Crosby took a feed from John LeClair in the slot and feigned to shoot. Most players would have, but Crosby slid the sweetest pass you'll ever see to Recchi for a tap-in.
It brought to mind a young Magic Johnson shunning easy baskets so his veteran teammates could score easier ones.
Who doesn't love to play with a guy like that?
One difference is that everybody knew how good Magic was before he ever set foot in the NBA, whereas most have never seen Crosby in action. We're just going by what we've heard.
We were until yesterday morning, anyway.
Remarkably, Crosbymania already has resulted in Reebok selling 16,000 No. 87 jerseys since the draft lottery and Crosby's personal website absorbing more than 100,000 hits per day, according to his agent, Pat Brisson.
The Kid's already pitching Gatorade, Reebok, Telus (one of Canada's leading telecommunications companies) and Sherwood. He's already done Leno and Vanity Fair and will be featured in GQ in November.
Too much hype?
Not enough, if you ask me.
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