Posted on 07/15/2005 11:56:01 PM PDT by ElPatriota
I am a conservative. My brother in Law is a liberal. I am visiting them here in Florida and as usual we are having the samE old arguments. The SCHIAVO case poses a new disagreement.
I uas under the impression that Terry's parents **ASKED** for the custody of her daughter, as well as all finanacial responsabilities. (In other words, the government would NOT PAY FOR ANYTHING RELATED TO HER CARE)
My brother in law contends that he never heard the parents in any of the interviews he saw on the news - and they were many - ASK for FULL CUSTODY OF HER, AS WELL AS ALL FINANCIAL RESPONSABILITIES.
So help us, who is right? Me? Him? if neither, what are the facts? (please provide links or references to articles that support the correct position>
Yeah, all along I called the hospice in Pinellas Park "Auschwitz with landscaping".
For the rest of my life I'll never forget the sight of the entrance to that place, where Terri's mother and father and brother and sister and priest had to endure being searched several times every day; and where they would come out after their visits with her dazed, or weeping; with its flowing four foot high fountain of cool, lifegiving water, next to the flagpole with Old Glory flying above in the breeze...
One of the saddest and most dangerous events in the history of this republic.
What was done to Terri was a violation of Judaic teaching.
It was a crime against Judeo-Christian values that are ancient values.
"Thou shall not commit murder."
HA!!! So the Autopsy report is ok for you when he says POSSIBLY not the cause. Remember that word. He also didn't rule it out. Read it again, he didn't CLEARY say NOT. he gave factors which COULD have given those particular false readings, but he DIDN't say all those factors were present. I can name one right now. She wasn't loosing blood, so she WOULDN"T have been given 1200 ml of glucose. there you go. Plus, blemia has other effects on the body. Low blood preasure. That can cause arterial colapse. poof! your gone. no trace. Al sorts of things that can't be determined with bloodwork, but can cause colapse and death. She was dead long before the judge orderd the tube removed. dead brain = dead. just because the body lives doesn't mean you are concious and aware. It isn't as rare as you think either. Every year, there are at any given time about 10,000 Terri's. thy all die. She was the exception, living on brain stem funtion for 15 years, before her, I forget her name, it was 10 years if I recall. We know the longer they live, the more brain tissue dissolves away. her body was NOT alowed to die long ago, as it should have been. read the case file. she was kept alive because Micheal had hope she would recover. Too bad you refuse to read the case file, and learn the truth instead of repeating rumors and lies. Again, you can't kill what's aready dead. I am not sick because I like to raise my own food. I like to know what I'm eating and what it ate before I eat it. I also shoot deer, moose, elk, bear, ducks and geese. I gut 'em, clean 'em and fill my freezer. If you think that's sick, to damn bad.
Killing game animals for food is not 'sick'.
Killing the disabled for convenience 'is'.
Now that's just a damn lie. First, allowing a body to die as it nateraly would is not commiting "murder"
Again, read Ambrose and st Augustine before you start preaching, you are no minister.
And quit being a Novatian. Read repentance as well.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/34061.htm
There's the link. Before you start preaching what's in the bible, read what's in it and what it means. You can preach church philosophy all you want, but not to me. I follow the gospel.
That's not what happened. That's just your opinion. You can't kill what's already dead.
If the highest end of virtue is that which aims at the advancement of most, gentleness is the most lovely of all, which does not hurt even those whom it condemns, and usually renders those whom it condemns worthy of absolution. Moreover, it is the only virtue which has led to the increase of the Church which the Lord sought at the price of His own Blood, imitating the lovingkindness of heaven, and aiming at the redemption of all, seeks this end with a gentleness which the ears of men can endure, in presence of which their hearts do not sink, nor their spirits quail.
"For he who endeavours to amend the faults of human weakness ought to bear this very weakness on his own shoulders, let it weigh upon himself, not cast it off. For we read that the Shepherd in the Gospel carried the weary sheep, and did not cast it off. And Solomon says: "Be not overmuch righteous;" for restraint should temper righteousness. For how shall he offer himself to you for healing whom you despise, who thinks that he will be an object of contempt, not of compassion, to his physician? " "Therefore had the Lord Jesus compassion upon us in order to call us to Himself, not frighten us away. He came in meekness, He came in humility, and so He said: "Come unto Me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will refresh you.'' So, then, the Lord Jesus refreshes, and does not shut out nor east off, and fitly chose such disciples as should be interpreters of the Lord's will, as should gather together and not drive away the people of God. Whence it is clear that they are not to be counted amongst the disciples of Christ, who think that harsh and proud opinions should be followed rather than such as are gentle and meek; persons who, while they themselves seek God's mercy, deny it to others, such as are the teachers of the Novatians, who call themselves pure."
So, you're not only a god, and a medical expert, you're a religious philosopher king. Got it...
A lot of folks sure expended alot of energy and political capital to dehydrate someone who was 'already dead'.
Your hero, Michael Schiavo, should have just saved himself and everybody alot of grief and turned over the 'dead body' to those who loved her, then.
/bitter sarcasm
31"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy[c] angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34Then the King will say to those on His right hand, "Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, "Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40And the King will answer and say to them, "Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.'
41"Then He will also say to those on the left hand, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'
44"Then they also will answer Him,[d] saying, "Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?' 45Then He will answer them, saying, "Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Well?
I have cared for hundreds of PVS and brain damaged folks and let me tell you Terri's PVS diagnosis was borderline at best.
In any case she was alive by any definition and if she appear healthy and happy she was not brain dead. Spend a little more time with a CP child and mother and you will find that there is a value to that child that is not measured by brain functioning.
Please stop graying the line between brain damaged and brain dead. If you truly are a medical professional you know full well what brain dead means. It is a lie to say that Terri was brain dead even if you determine she did not have enough mental functioning to suit your definition of being alive.
By your definition you are equating a human being to a machine that has lost it memory and is sent to the dumpster.
What about the soul?
Does my computer have a soul because it has a memory? We as humans are not just a working set of neurons.
Terri was not in an acute state or in terminal condition when she died, therefore she was murdered, legally mind you, but murdered all the same.
This debate will rage on for decades within the Medical community and those who have spent their lives caring for the brain damaged community will win because we have seen life in the strangest places.
Very well said.
Well, what do you have to say about Matthew 25?
Well, what do you have to say about Matthew 25?
By the way, can you give the definition of the word 'inalienable', as it appears in the Declaration of Independence and in Article One, Section Two of the Florida constitution?
Just tell me if this is getting too hard for you...
Sure got quiet around here. Heh...
You lost all credibility . . . and then some.
Terri was the apple of her father's eye.
Notice the last line in the plaque in #50 :-)
I'm no minister, but I heard Pope John Paul II beg several times for Terri's life. I thought he was a holy man and an expert in Christian doctrine, but from what you say here, he must have been playing hookie when they were teaching "Ambrose and st Augustine."
It is. With tens or even hundreds of thousands of other people like Terri, I am very concerned--this case was as much about those others as it was about Terri. A society where a person's right to continue living is judged by their monetary value to "society"--i.e., whether they can work and take care of themselves--is not a society I want any part of. Compassion for the helpless is part of what makes us civilized.
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