Posted on 07/10/2005 6:46:42 AM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin
Women experience friendship differently and more deeply than men - and when it ends, they experience the loss more deeply, too.
That's the stance taken by writers of recent books about failed friendships that have sparked debate online and in the real world - among friends, of course.
"Men seem to have a hard time understanding women, and it really is nice to have someone understand you," says Jenny Bryers, a UW- Madison graduate student. "I don't think losing a friendship is necessarily worse for women than for men, but we probably let it bother us more. Women generally let things bother them more than men, especially if it's something we have no control over, something we can't change."
Susan Johnson, associate casualty claims representative at Madison-based American Family Insurance, added: "I think men bond differently, and forgive easier when it comes to male friends, and move on to bond with others. I don't think men hold grudges as long as women, because they don't get as emotionally involved with their friends."
These local women would find similar social commentary served up in recent books such as "The Friend Who Got Away: Twenty Women's True Life Tales of Friendships that Blew Up, Burned Out or Faded Away," edited by Jenny Ofill and Elissa Schappell. The Doubleday book came out in May.
The new take on female friendships runs counter to the stereotype of the "catty and competitive" woman, said professor Susan Friedman of UW- Madison's Department of Women's Studies and English.
We typically believe "that women are rivals for the attention, love, and approval of men and that they therefore can't really be friends (with other women)," she says. "But there is also a lot written that goes against such stereotypes: recognition that women need their friendships with other women in order to get through life's troubles and trials, often suffering related to their relations with men, their troubles with caring for children or parents, their difficulties on the job or combining family and job responsibilities."
In fact, in May, Shelley Taylor, author of "The Tending Instinct" and a neuroscientist at UCLA, announced that hard science suggests that "there's an important biological role for women's friendships that scientists have largely ignored."
Fundamental differences Biological or not, some at least perceive a real difference between the genders' friendship styles.
Johnson recalled a long-ago friend who after high school started to date the same man as she did. "It immediately severed our relationship," Johnson said. She had tried over the years to contact me. But I just didn't know what to say to her, so I never responded. I do know the betrayal I felt was deeper and hurt more than any man could have caused."
After 12 years, they patched things up. Laura Malischke, owner of Acclaimed Resume Services, has not. She recalls a long-ago friend from the dorms at UW-Eau Claire.
"She introduced me to new music, new books, and new ways of seeing the world," Malischke says. "While I had originally found her to be the strong, stand up for your beliefs-type, I began to observe that she was a very needy and very dependent girl."
It came to a head, she says, during a camping trip, during which her friend stayed up late complaining, getting drunk and throwing up.
"She dragged me down emotionally and physically with her neediness and constant seeking of approval," Malischke recalled. "I did a very selfish thing and removed her from my circle. I'm taking the good things from our relationship, while still remembering why exactly I decided to end it."
But others will have to be convinced that "The Friend Who Got Away" reports anything unique or even valid. "I think the whole thesis of this book is wrong, at least for me," said Katjusa Cisar, a student at Edgewood College. "And I think the emotional scars from broken relationships are difficult to bear for both sexes, not just women."
Sudden interest? Why all the recent interest in women's relationships with other women? It may be new to publishers, but not to women, said UW-Madison's Friedman, who has worked with the issue of women's friendships in relationship to literature.
"In the 1970s, there was an interesting transition from women's 'coffee klatches' to women's 'consciousness raising groups,' as women began to see that their personal problems were part of a larger societal pattern," Friedman said. "Women's friendships are at the heart of this phenomenon - existing before consciousness raising groups, and of course afterwards."
Or it could be marketing. Sheelah Kolhatkar, writing in the February New York Observer, says that "The Friend Who Got Away" and other anthologies "could all be a sign that the confessional personal essay has reached the peak of its power, culminating in a breathless surge of self-help chick-lit - a combination of memoir, therapy and girl talk. The anthology frenzy also suggests that the publishing industry is furiously trying to replicate one huge success by producing countless imitators."
Back in 1996, Kate Fillion, in her book, "The Myth of Female Virtue in Love, Sex, and Friendship," charged that studies of women's relationships were fundamentally biased.
"The problem isn't that men lack the gene for 'rapport- talk,'" she wrote. "Researchers' heartwarming description of female friendship omits a significant detail: many of these friendships are rooted in a fundamentally adversarial attitude toward men. Women's sharing and caring frequently involves swapping stories about what jerks men are and diminishing men to shore each other up."
Two recent books:
• "The Friend Who Got Away: Twenty Women's True Life Tales of Friendships that Blew Up, Burned Out or Faded Away," edited by Jenny Ofill and Elissa Schappell. The American Library Association Booklist says, "By breaking the silence about failed friendship so literately, this book appeals to many more readers than just students of interpersonal psychology."
• "Secrets and Confidences: The Complicated Truth About Women's Friendships" Edited by Karen Eng (October 2004, Seal Press). Amazon.com says the book concludes "problematic women's relationships with one another can be intense, intimate affairs, more steadfast than any romantic relationship and ultimately, more fulfilling."
That's always a chance I've been willing to take. :-)
Oh, that's when we give the secret handshake and discuss world domination.
Plus, we all exchange ideas on what drives you guys crazy the quickest ;)
LOL!!!
me too
Pinging the Gang...
Have your say....
You and I are alot alike.
My closest friends today are mostly guys. In fact, many are married guys - and their wives are a-okay with it. Not sure I should take that as a compliment!?
I don't go shopping - I buy stuff.
I don't gossip - but I know where all the "bodies are buried".
I don't act "catty" - if I like you - you'll know and vice versa.
I am very independent and that scares the boys in my neighborhood. I find there are a lot of men in my past who have wanted to "tame me". While they liked me for all of my qualities before we dated - they tried to turn me into June Cleaver. That's never going to work.
As a military wife myself, I understand exactly what you're saying.
There seems to be a common theme in threads like this. It appears that a lot of conservative women feel more comfortable with men than they do other women. I haven't figured out why that is, but I find it interesting.
I get along well with men, too, but I also have many long-term, close and loyal women friends.
The trick is choosing women who are balanced personalities and not the type of women who I call 'hormonal.'
;-)
It's this 'hormonal' type who live their lives on an emotional roller-coaster, who tend to be jealous of other women and who play all of those infuriating mental games.
I've never gotten along with 'hormonal' women except at a distance, and, thankfully, they tend to avoid me, too.
:-)
People who are busy and dedicated don't gossip - they don't have the time or inclination. People who are under appreciated and under used use gossip as a means to increase their importance.
IMHO
I have found that the older one gets, the smaller the circle of friends gets. Perhaps because with life responsibilities, we tend to value our time more, and only spend it with those whom we truly value and share common things. I don't want to waste time on the superficial.
Friendship is a two-way street. You have to give and recieve. If you don't recieve anything in return, it's time to cut your losses and move on.
I have always found the company of men comfortable also. I do think they are less judgemental, and if you can get past them wanting to sleep with you, are quite capable friends. ;)
Besides the hippy chick thing, it sounds like your mother and my mother have a lot in common. My mother is also a drama queen and she is very needy and demanding. Like you, I swore I would never be that way and so far I've been successful.
I've also told my husband to shoot me and put me out of his misery if I ever start sounding like her. :-)
(Don't get me wrong. I love my Mom, but she's very difficult to deal with sometimes.)
Is your Mom manipulative? Mine is and that's why I dislike it when I see that trait in other women.
I also have to say that I've met some great women on FR. It's nice to finally meet some women who don't play games and speak their minds.
My mother was the opposite. She was manager of an auto parts store and she hunted and fished for hobbies. She was very strong-willed and beautiful, and as a result had very few women friends.
I wanted to grow-up to be just like her. One thing we have in common is few women friends. I have 4 close friends, all from different periods of my life. I lose track of them, then reconnect. These are very special people...I have been very blessed. Sometimes, less is more.
Lost an Old Friend Today. Politics and the Personal
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1287896/posts
I know this up close and personal.
Conservative women tend to be "successful", both professionally and in their relationships. It's hard to develop meaningful friendships with other women who resent and envy you, especially liberal women who simply can't accept that their lack of professional and relationship success might be their own fault. ;)
I have one close female friend. We have been friends for almost 39 years. We are closer than two of my sisters. I have learned to not trust the women you work with. I have worked with the same four women for 10 years and they ALL will turn on you in an instant. I will say a lot of "close" friends are men. Much better that way. Some women can be devious!!
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