Posted on 06/24/2005 7:13:06 AM PDT by hispanichoosier
I need help with LOTR. Two friends and I were discussing the books and movies last weekend. Friend 1 observed that the relationship between Frodo and Sam (in the movies) had homosexual overtones. Friend 2 retorted that the relationship is based on the master/servant relationship of old England and that Friend 1 was looking at it through American eyes, where rugged individualism is more prized. I--caught in the middle--had to admit that I thought that Sean Astin overplayed Sam at times but was great overall.
So, was Friend 1 right about the gay overtones, or was Friend 2's explanation correct? I'm rather at a loss over the whole debacle.
Those who seek power are destroyed by it. Those who don't seek power often find themselves having it thrust upon them.
Tolkien tells us all in the beginning of the book that he wrote it for entertainment only. Relying on the good sense of the author, I can only surmise that the Hobbit characters are "innocents" and that for someone to read something such as homosexuality into the saga is that persons' load to bear, not the authors'. Loyalty and courage are things to be honored.
(Why would anyone want to second-guess an author as great as he was?)
He's not exactly conservative, he's a democrat, but he's still finding his way, and he's young. He has political aspirations, but he stammers a bit trying to explain his views. In interviews I've seen him to be honest about patriotism. He's also married with children and is not gay.
If anyone would know for sure, you would Hair. Thanks.
There is another body of work that focuses on the friendship of two men, but by no means would you ever be able to call it a homosexual one : the two main characters of Patrick O'Brian's Master and Commander series (there are 20 books which you might say is just one big huge singular novel), Jack Aubrey and Stephen Maturin.
That's not to say that the slash culture on the internet hasn't tried to make something homosexual out of that relationship - all too often it is young women who have really warped ideas about relationships between men and women, much less between two members of the same sex.
But yes, your #2 friend was dead on : Frodo was, in Middle Earth terms a very well-to-do hobbit, probably akin to upper class (think Mr. Bingley of Pride and Prejudice) who had a good working relationship with some of the families of his servants, and one of those servants fell into the story by happenstance. A lot of times the newcomers to the stories don't pay much attention to what Tolkien says, and assume that Sam had always been a close friend of Frodo's, when I think in actuality, he got pulled into it, but because he so admired the Baggins and had such a good standing with them, the servant/master relationship evolved into a friendship...and Sam, being loyal and understanding of the tremendous journey, proves himself to be every bit a hero as the other characters.
Hope that makes sense.
Well, I just wanted to clarify... because, early on, we got a little ahead of ourselves thinking he was a Republican when he accepted that volunteer council position for President Bush. While I think he is one of the good guys in Hollywood, participating in USO and other activities to support our troops and positively represents America when he talks (he's not one of the blame America crowd that I've heard).... he also appeared in a Kerry campaign appearance or two. I didn't want you to get bit in the rear if he ends up running for office as a Democrat someday. He might. ;~D
All of the actors/directors/writers in that film had their own political agendas to project onto Tolkien's work (some of which he may have quasi-agreed with) but none of them wanted to be aligned with a group of people saying it was a just thing to stand up to the terrorists. Oh no. Can't use the book/film to lead people to THAT conclusion.
Which is one of the reasons why Mortensson became so involved with MoveOne.org/ANSWER....the jerk.
I think evets is a troll
Even gayer than I first thought.
With a mind like yours, I'd hate to imagine....
And I won't imagine.... I'd rather be in my head than yours.
Yeah, but what about Elijah Wood?
When was the last time you saw him with a girl, or a girl-like being such as John Edwards?
I'm glad you found the movies such a satisfying experience. I'm afraid I'm just too much of a written-word purist.
I suppose some of my favorite actors could be total dunces, and I just don't know it because I haven't seen them out of character :-).
I had no idea. How interesting!
Don't forget, that Frodo had the ring since he was of age, and it had stopped Bilbo's aging.
So, Frodo should look young as well.
What if Friend #1 is female?
I see gay people. They're
everywhere. They don't even
know they're gay.
I was fortunate enough not to see him in any intervies; my better half did and told me about his shirt.
Although I have the extended versions, I haven't watched most of the extra stuff (ie. interviews and so on.)
I loved the books so much, I was surprised I liked the movies as much as I do.
Now the better half is going to read the books.
Didn't carry it around, though, and "of age" is 33, not 16.
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