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2003 Heisman winner can't get a job
various Oklahoma sports media outlets ^ | now | me

Posted on 04/27/2005 12:27:40 PM PDT by GodfearingTexan

This is a sad situation. I am a big time Sooner fan (even though my name on here is Texan, long story). I never fell in love with Jason White as a QB, but I admit he threw for some great yardage the last two years and he did come back from two knee surgeries to do it. I do think he was the rightful winner of the Heisman in 03. But his performances in the championship games were horrible.

Anyway, I thought he should've gone ahead and left for the NFL last year after he won the Heisman. But, alas, he asked for a medical hardship waiver from the NCAA and got to play another year. He did fine, except for the USC game.

Well, now he hasn't gotten drafted, and almost inexplicably, he can't even get an invitation to a work-out camp next week. That's according to all the current sources here in Oklahoma. He has the same agent as Brett Favre, and the guy actually called EVERY SINGLE PRO TEAM, to no avail. There were no Jason White takers to be found.

Again, according to all media outlets on the issue, the basic issue is medical (two knee surgeries), with additional concerns over his size, arm strength, and while we're at it, his ability to win the big game. Although, in fairness to Jason White, a certain QB from Tennessee seemed to have that latter problem as well and it doesn't seem to have carried over into his pro career.

So, for the first time, basically ever, a Heisman winner who has WANTED to get drafted can't get drafted. It's sad. I know there are some Jason White haters out there, but for all his drawbacks, he's a pretty cool dude. The radio people keep saying that he is probably going to enjoy a long and probably boring but lucrative career in Oklahoma as "Jason White, former OU QB and Heisman Trophy Winner."


TOPICS: Sports
KEYWORDS: football; ncaa; notnews; sports; wrongforum
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To: GodfearingTexan

I am surprised that he didn't get drafted at all, but let's admit it: he is not a good field general. I hoped to see him get a chance in the pros, but he's a good kid who will excel at something else.


61 posted on 04/27/2005 1:22:50 PM PDT by Puddleglum (Thank God the Boston blowhard lost)
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To: One Proud Dad
BS. The QB has to start the offense. OU averages over 35 points a game for two years and cannot score a td for 3 quarters.

That's a function of competition.

The old saying defense wins Championships is true and OU had one of the best of them, but not if you cannot score.

I watched the Alabama national championship team in 92 that had a very mediocre offense. They could barely score 20 points a game. There defense was one of the all time greats and kept others from scoring more. That is what great defenses do - they don't implode and allow over 50 points.

62 posted on 04/27/2005 1:24:08 PM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: JeffAtlanta

"By your logic, only Tom Brady, Trent Difler and Kurt Warner aren't big game chokers."


No, Kurt Warner's Rams lost to Brady's Pats.


"The QB is just part of the team - a very important part, but still just a part."

Yeah, those 3 INTs to Ty Law (or Tyrone Poole? Can't remember) 2 years ago weren't the only reason they lost...but were pretty damn key to that game.

No argument about the point you're making, but sports history will always judge the Dan Marinos, Fran Tarkentons, and maybe Peyton Mannings as great QBs who couldn't win the big game.


63 posted on 04/27/2005 1:33:05 PM PDT by Blzbba ("Under every stone lurks a politician. " Aristophanes, 410 BC)
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To: Waterleak

"Hey there is always the Canadian Football League."

Boy, you REALLY hate this guy, don't you.


64 posted on 04/27/2005 1:37:00 PM PDT by righttackle44 (The most dangerous weapon in the world is a Marine with his rifle and the American people behind him)
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To: JeffAtlanta

"but only halfway decent game day coaches. "


That's actually a pretty complimentary review of Phil Fulmer...


65 posted on 04/27/2005 1:37:38 PM PDT by Blzbba ("Under every stone lurks a politician. " Aristophanes, 410 BC)
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To: L.N. Smithee
In the grand scheme of things, I suppose that absolutely everyone that's played in the NFL has skills worthy of respect -- even Ryan Leaf, Fran Tarkenton, Jim Kelley, and that absolute tool Jeff George who was a first round draft pick but should have been taken behind the stadiums of several different teams and drowned in a wading pool.

My respect for Kapp is tempered by the fact that he should never have played NFL either, basically being a linebacker in service as a QB. He miracled his way to the Superbowl with the hated Vikings, but I still have to hand it to him.

Seeing that you're a fan of my hometown team, I credit that for your kind forgiveness towards disappointing athletes.

66 posted on 04/27/2005 2:03:27 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid (Semper Fi!)
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To: Blzbba
That's actually a pretty complimentary review of Phil Fulmer...

LOL - good point. Fulmer, Mack Brown, Bob Stoops and Bobby Bowden all rely on recruiting to have a massive talent advantage in order to cover up for their lack of game planning and game day coaching ability.

In order to win a championship game, each of the above coaches must hope to either have a massive talent advantage or face a coach that is even worse at gameplanning and game day coaching.

Florida St over Virginia Tech - huge talent advantage (20 NFL players vs Michael Vick)

Floridia St over Nebraska - huge talent advantage (that year)

Tennessee over Florida State - Florida State had to play their 3rd string QB and still UT barely won. Fulmer was lucky to play Bowden

Oklahoma over Florida State - Stoops fortunate to play Bowden

Florida over Florida State - equal talent, Bowden loses again

LSU over Oklahoma - Oklahoma has better talent, but Saban coaching advantage makes up for it

USC over Oklahoma - Oklahoma has better talent, but Carol coachign advantage makes up for it

If it were not for Bowden being such a pitiful game day coach, neither Oklahoma nor Tennessee would have won their championships.

67 posted on 04/27/2005 2:03:54 PM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: The KG9 Kid
I suppose that absolutely everyone that's played in the NFL has skills worthy of respect -- even Ryan Leaf, Fran Tarkenton, Jim Kelley, and that absolute tool Jeff George

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

You're actually putting Fran Tarkenton and Jim Kelly in the same sentence with Jeff George and Ryan Freaking Leaf? Tarkenton and Jim Kelly are in the Hall of Fame. Jeff George is in the Hall of Blame. Leaf is in the Hall of Shame.

68 posted on 04/27/2005 2:16:37 PM PDT by L.N. Smithee (Honestly - would anybody be surprised if it was revealed George Felos is a necrophiliac?)
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To: L.N. Smithee
I was thinking the same thing. Tarkenton held all kinds of records when he retired.

One of the all time greats.

69 posted on 04/27/2005 2:21:57 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: L.N. Smithee

"Leaf is in the Hall of Shame."


Leaf was also voted by ESPN as #1 Draft Bust Pick of All Time.


70 posted on 04/27/2005 2:23:33 PM PDT by Blzbba ("Under every stone lurks a politician. " Aristophanes, 410 BC)
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To: JeffAtlanta
I can remember when Bowden regularly beat great teams with mediocre talent. I even remember winning a bet in the mid 80's when FSU beat one of the strongest Nebraska teams ever, and at Lincoln.

There might be a little truth in what you say in the last few years. I think he is definitely beyond his prime but he is the winningest coach ever.

71 posted on 04/27/2005 2:24:49 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: GodfearingTexan

I don't know whether his knees are a concern, but I think what concerns NFL scouts is his inability to attack solid defenses. Probably his worst games were against teams with very good defenses, and he racked up yards against cover 2 zones where OU's great receivers got behind the corners and there wasn't safety suppport over there.

If you look at his career, perhaps there are a few games where he put up good numbers against some good defenses, but just look at his worst games in the last two years: against KSU and LSU in '03, and against t.u. and USC in '04. 1 win out of that, and that only produced an output of 12 points.

Indianapolis reportedly told him he could come there as a FA, then called back and reniged a few days later. I must say that part of me sees this as sweet revenge for the bogus 6th year he got. I think that's crap.


72 posted on 04/27/2005 2:25:20 PM PDT by 1L
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To: JeffAtlanta

"Fulmer, Mack Brown, Bob Stoops and Bobby Bowden "


Well done - you named 3 of the most over-rated active coaches! Although I might've been nicer to Stoops, since he at least DOMINATES Mack Brown!!!

And an absolute DEAD ON assessment of Bobby Bowden.

No coach besides Dean Smith and Bobby Cox has done less (in terms of winning championships) with more talent than Bobby "They're just kids!!" Bowden.

great post!


73 posted on 04/27/2005 2:26:16 PM PDT by Blzbba ("Under every stone lurks a politician. " Aristophanes, 410 BC)
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To: JeffAtlanta

Only if you offense can keep your defense off the field half the time and not give the other offense the ball inside your 50 everytime it coughs it up. Nobody's defense can keep a good offense out of the endzone for 45 minutes if that offense starts at about mid-field everytime. The OU defense had some very good stops, they ( nobody ) just can't stop everything and be expected to score as well.

If you played I don't think you played defense ( I played defense ). Defense is more demanding than offense as every play is a guess for you and the offense knows where it is going and can get the right people in place. Defense is all out for every play where as on offense if you are away from the play you can sandbag which is about half the time. All out for 15 minutes and you are spent with no recovery time before the next time you are sent out. Especially these 300+ pound wonders. I think that linemen need to be trimmed down back to under 270 or so. Not many 300+ pounds can keep chasing/tackling/blocking 240-270 guys and last.

The QB is responsible for making things happen on offense. If he can't by half time jerk his butt.

This sad attachment to letting a guy keep playing to see if he can fix it is junk after you are down by 3-4 scores and dying, especially in the big game. The NFL is worse than college about letting "stars" keep on a losing streak in a game eg. Vick come to mind.


74 posted on 04/27/2005 2:41:29 PM PDT by One Proud Dad
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To: yarddog
I can remember when Bowden regularly beat great teams with mediocre talent. I even remember winning a bet in the mid 80's when FSU beat one of the strongest Nebraska teams ever, and at Lincoln.

Yeah I remember those too - Florida State was so fun to watch in those days. They would block a punt almost every game.

Couple of notes though. The Nebraska teams of the 80's were very overrated. Their players were very strong but were pretty slow and their defense was unable to cope against passing offenses. Their option offense was also easily dismantled against talented, fast defenses. Miami and FSU met both of these criteria and had their way with both Nebraska and Oklahoma during that period.

It wasn't until the early 90s that Osborne changed up his team. I give him credit for actually becoming a lot better the older he became - he and Gene Stallings are the only coaches I know of that have done that. If Osborne had not retired when he did, I think he could have easily won 2 or 3 more championships.

When Bowden was building the FSU program, he was a far different coach than he became once FSU became a power. Around 1988 or so he became very reliant on recruiting. Since that time, when he has faced a team of equal or almost equal talent, Bowden never seems to come up on top - especially in a big game. His success against Miami is a good example.

75 posted on 04/27/2005 2:43:06 PM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: Blzbba

Stoops being a bad coach is crap. You are nuts. Todays coaches are only as good as their staff. Carroll and Saban included. Well see how Saban does.


76 posted on 04/27/2005 2:43:57 PM PDT by One Proud Dad
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To: TigerPower

Clarett.

No. Please. No. Let's not go there. I just want to give that guy what for. Someone should have, and long ago.


77 posted on 04/27/2005 2:48:29 PM PDT by combat_boots (Dug in and not budging an inch. NOT to be schiavoed, greered, or felosed as a patient)
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To: One Proud Dad
If USC had won 7-0 then you would have a point. Even if Oklahoma had held USC to 21 points then you would have somewhat of a point. Championship defenses should be able to hold another team to less than 30 points.

White is not that good of a QB - I totally agree with that. He had bad games against both USC and LSU - I agree with that too. I will say that USC and LSU had a lot to do with that though. Other teams weren't able to expose the weaknesses of the Oklahoma offense - those two teams did.

Look at the 1992 Alabama championship team. Their offense was bordered on poor, but their defense kept them in games until the offense found a way to score. Oklahoma should have done that - especially against LSU.

As I said in my previous posts, Stoops is a great recruiter but not a great coach. He has brought Oklahoma great regular season success but in big games he has to hope play against Bowden, Fulmer or Mack Brown. Those coaches offer great upsides to their programs but the fans need to realize that they have to live with their downsides as well.

Most schools would be more than happy to be in Oklahoma's shoes, so this isn't a knock against any of the programs.

Jason White didn't lose those game, Oklahoma did.
78 posted on 04/27/2005 2:53:38 PM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: One Proud Dad
If USC had won 7-0 then you would have a point. Even if Oklahoma had held USC to 21 points then you would have somewhat of a point. Championship defenses should be able to hold another team to less than 30 points.

White is not that good of a QB - I totally agree with that. He had bad games against both USC and LSU - I agree with that too. I will say that USC and LSU had a lot to do with that though. Other teams weren't able to expose the weaknesses of the Oklahoma offense - those two teams did.

Look at the 1992 Alabama championship team. Their offense was bordered on poor, but their defense kept them in games until the offense found a way to score. Oklahoma should have done that - especially against LSU.

As I said in my previous posts, Stoops is a great recruiter but not a great coach. He has brought Oklahoma great regular season success but in big games he has to hope play against Bowden, Fulmer or Mack Brown. Those coaches offer great upsides to their programs but the fans need to realize that they have to live with their downsides as well.

Most schools would be more than happy to be in Oklahoma's shoes, so this isn't a knock against any of the programs.

Jason White didn't lose those game, Oklahoma did.
79 posted on 04/27/2005 2:55:33 PM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: One Proud Dad
Stoops being a bad coach is crap. Todays coaches are only as good as their staff.

No one said that Stoops is a bad coach. It has been said that his game planning and game day coaching ablity is not that great.

It is the coach's responsibility to build his staff just like it is the coach's responsibility to recruit the players. Stoops is great at recruiting, but he has had to rely on beating Mack Brown and Bobby Bowden (two other coaches that really just recruit) to obtain national success.

Without the screwed up BSC, Oklahoma would have played Miami rather than FSU in the championship game and it probably would have turned out a lot different for Oklahoma if that had happened.

80 posted on 04/27/2005 3:01:20 PM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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