Posted on 04/22/2005 5:24:59 AM PDT by Slip18
Friday, April 22, 2005
In order that we might all raise the level of discourse and expand our language abilities, here is the daily post of “word for the day”. Rules: Everyone must leave a post using the “word of the day”; in a sentence. The sentence must, in some way, relate to the news of the day.
Subbie Slip has her whip, handcuffs and legcuffs today.
The rest of the stuff is locked up in my drawer. I’m just letting all the new students know that we behave as if we were ladies and gentlemen in here. Those two words “as if” can get you an A if you make the subbie laugh.
Adj
Pronunciation: Sin/i/ster.
adjective: (heraldry) on or starting from the wearer's left
Example: "Bar sinister"
adjective: stemming from evil characteristics or forces; wicked or dishonorable
Example: "The scheme of some sinister intelligence bent on punishing him-Thomas Hardy"
adjective: threatening or foreshadowing evil or tragic developments
Example: "Sinister storm clouds"
i do understand that because you are a post Vat2 Catholic, that it would not mean the same thing to you. if i was in 1st or 2d grade when they made the changes and you are at least ten years younger than i am, it would explain your lack of affinity for tradition.
You are saving us from buying the crap too! :)
"tradition"
Hear, hear-no more mariachi mass, and I want REAL high mass-with incense and latin chants, like when I was a child-the feel good mass has gotten so out of hand that there are only two churches out here I really enjoy going to mass at-neither one is in this community and the nearest one is 30 miles away-they are also the only ones out here that still hear confession...
Why can't you explain you're own lack of affinity for tradition then? By your own admission - all changes up to 1960 we're hunky-doory. But that’s it - no more change never be made again! If I got Bill & Ted's phone booth and brought back a medieval dude, would you be happy if we had old 13th century cathedral style traditions only?
Actually, for all you knew I may have been rushing to the bathroom because I stumbled onto a freeper thread containing photos of Hillary, Mo Dowd, AND Helen Thomas.
Sorry to do that to you right before dinner. I take it back.
No confessions? That seriously IS messed-up
have you listened to those of us who are in favor of a return to tradition and what we have said? slip, T5 , hobbes and i? the reverence, the solemnity, the quiet and respectful adoration of the preVat2 mass is largely missing from the mariachi masses, the folk masses, the circus dancing masses. i can't tell if you are being facetious and a contrarian, or if this is really impossible for you to grasp? whether it is your taste or not, or an affinity that you don't have for lack of exposure to it, is one thing, but respecting the preference of others who have experienced it, and found it superior does seem to be in order.
and truth be told, i think the prevat2 Mass WAS identical to a medieval Mass (i don't know enough church history honestly to prove it) that is what tradition means. the MASS despite what the libs would have you believe, is not a LIVING (as they would also paint the constitution) thing that changes with the times. NEVER WAS prior to vat2. that is the problem. so yes, i would be perfectly happy with any ancient Mass, thank you very much.
Glad my curiosity about soy products is helpful-I keep hoping someone will actually make one that tastes like something but soybean curd (or is that crud).
I was originally being facetious about your idea that 1960 masses are somehow superior to 1360 or 660 masses, but if you are going to bring up lack of respect for others experience continually - how DO you know the changes that took us to the 1960 version of mass are so damn better and actually count as improvements?
"The impression grew steadily," he writes, "that nothing was now stable in the Church, that everything was open to revision"--by these scholars. This is not just some arcane dispute over how many angels dance on the head of a pin. It is precisely the fight over intellectual authority and daily application being fought right now in the U.S. Senate over the Bush judges and Constitutional interpretation. As Joseph Ratzinger put it, he opposes a "reality" that someone has "simply thought up." Sounds like a soul-brother of Antonin Scalia to me. Like the U.S., the Catholic Church is a huge, sprawling, complex institution, and there are real issues at stake here that affect long-term life on the streets and in the pews.
Now Joseph Ratzinger has the bully pulpit of the papacy, and it will be impossible to marginalize him as an unthinking dogmatist. He is not that. He is a formidable advocate for his ideas. He argues, for instance, (again in language redolent of Justice Scalia) that the Church's centuries of liturgical tradition were essentially "demolished" in the late 1960s. And he knows why he thinks roll-your-own liturgies were a mistake: "When liturgy is self-made, then it can no longer give us what its proper gift should be: the encounter with the mystery that is not our own product but rather our origin and the source of our life." Disagree if you will, but this is more than simply, "No."
so why build Cathedrals? Why ever leave the caves? THe basics of the mass are eternal, you're right XS, but there are multiple paths to AMDG (as well as dead-end paths - guitar mass - yuck!)
again, i think the point is there WERE No changes in the Mass until vat2.
caves to cathedrals is a pretty good change
there are things that can change that do not change the essences of the Mass. Mass in the vernacular is one. That doesn't constitute roll-yer-own masses (which I agree are bad).
and do you really think Jesus broke bread with His back to the Apostles like Eddie Van Halen worried someone could copy his guitar licks? Some of the traditions were wrong. That can happen.
Your post sums it up-the reverence, the solemnity and respectful adoration-and the sense of communion with God-it was joyous worship without being like a tent revival. There was also a certain peace in the flow of the latin and a oneness with the other worshippers that is missing for me now-just turning to the person next to you, shaking hands and saying may the peace of God be with you just doesn't do the same thing, for some of us, at least. When I showed hubby an article about many wanting to return to the pre-Vat II latin mass, he said "great-I'll be there gladly every Sunday and Holy day of obligation again when they do"-he is so unthrilled with the way the mass has gone the last several years that he doesn't always go to mass with me like he used to.
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