What Justice System?

Tomahawk | 3/27/05 | Tomahawk

[tomahawk]

What Justice System?

In a death penalty case, would any judge ignore new evidence in the form of multiple eyewitnesses' testimony which, if true, would prove definitively that the person scheduled for execution did not commit the crime, on the basis that the new evidence was not presented three (3) days earlier? One would hope not. That certainly would not be just.

Yet, that is essentially what has occured in the Terri Shiavo case. Judge George Greer was presented multiple affidavits by several eyewitnesses that heard, with their own ears, and saw with their own eyes, Terri Schiavo speaking, responding to an attorney's question, "Do you want to live", with "I WA.....".

Now, the very legal predicate being used to put Ms. Schiavo to death is that she is in a permanent vegetative state (PVS). Now, several neurologists and the eyewitnesses have testified under oath, under penalty of perjury and imprisonment, that Ms. Schiavo is likely NOT in a PVS.

His imperial highness, Judge Greer, ruled that this new evidence is worthless and should be disregarded, because it wasn't brought to his attention three (3) days earlier, at another hearing. In other words, Judge Greer doesn't care whether Ms. Schiavo is conscious or not, whether she is suffering or not, whether the basis to put her to death exists or not. This is an "I see nothing, I hear nothing" approach.

It is abhorrent and abominable. And he has now been affirmed by the Florida appellate courts on the basis that they wish to see nothing and hear nothing, either. Legal procedural technicalites being used to starve and dehydrate a conscious disabled citizen to death.

This is not a "justice" system. It is some other kind of system.

I would argue that fundamental due process under the 14th Amendment to the United States Consitution requires, and justice demands, that a person not be put to death on the basis of an old PVS diagnosis from some doctors, on the supposed basis of fulfilling the supposed wishes of a person on the predicate of an accurate PVS diagnosis, based upon old tests, where other competent doctors disagree and believe the person is not in a PVS and/or sworn testimony shows to the contrary.

This is murder, plain and simple. Cold-blooded murder in the Biblical or real-world sense, if not in the "legal" sense.

I believe that Ms. Schiavo is being deprived of her life without due process, and her 14th Amendment rights have been violated. That no court has agreed speaks volumes about the quality of the judges who sit on them.

This is a human tragedy, and we must fix this system to that other innocent helpless people are not put to death under similar circusmstances in the future. True justice demands it.

[snowsislander]

Appeals of murder cases are turned down because the new evidence is not timely and actual innocence is not necessarily a reason for a stay of execution of a new trial.

I am not clear if you are asserting that such appeals are always turned down; if so, that's not correct. Such exonerations do occur even in Texas, such as the Ochoa case where later DNA evidence was indeed accepted as exonerating evidence and Mr. Ochoa was freed after having spent 11 years in prison.

If you are saying that new evidence alone is not sufficient, you are correct. Even strong new evidence may not be enough, especially in Texas.

[mtbopfuyn]

Judge Greer followed the law.

Greer followed the law by not allowing Terri an attorney ad litem? Greer followed the law by ignoring all evidence in her favor each and every time for all these years? Greer followed the law by assigning himself her guardian and NEVER ONCE laid eyes on her? Greer followed the law by not demanding Terri's husband to show up in court so he wouldn't have to answer any questions year, after year, after year? Greer followed the law by not demanding to have the guardian financial statement presented to him each and every time? Sure, Greer merely following the letter of the law folks. Step aside. Nothing to see. Move on.

[mtbopfuyn]

True. ALL the judges have played cya on this case for years.

[Servant of the 9]

Unfortunately, recusal motions are filed with the judge sought to be recused, and are reviewed by other judges using deferential review standards.

To put it bluntly, that sucks.

So what's new?
Nancy Grace of CNN/Court TV was known as 'Amazing Grace' when she was a prosecutor in Atlanta because she had a 100% conviction rate on murders.
How many innocent people are on death row because she is extremely talented and they had poor quality public defenders?

The attorney for Terri Schiavo's parents did a poor job. She didn't get Greer recused, she didn't get material accepted into evidence, she didn't argue the case well.

That's a shame, but that is the best legal system man has been able to put together.
It works most of the time for most people.
It is idealistic, but naive to expect more from a human system.

If you blow your one bite at the apple, you're doomed.
Time to say "sorry about that" and move on.

So9

[Servant of the 9]

If you are saying that new evidence alone is not sufficient, you are correct. Even strong new evidence may not be enough, especially in Texas.

That is what I was trying to say. Thank's for clarifying.

So9

[Servant of the 9]

Greer followed the law by not allowing Terri an attorney ad litem? Greer followed the law by ignoring all evidence in her favor each and every time for all these years? Greer followed the law by assigning himself her guardian and NEVER ONCE laid eyes on her? Greer followed the law by not demanding Terri's husband to show up in court so he wouldn't have to answer any questions year, after year, after year? Greer followed the law by not demanding to have the guardian financial statement presented to him each and every time?

Yes, in fact he did follow the law in all that.
Don't like it?
Change the law, but don't bitch about the current law being enforced, it makes you sound like a liberal.

So9

[tomahawk]

I'm beginning to think there may be better legal systems in other countries.

[Servant of the 9]

I'm beginning to think there may be better legal systems in other countries.

Do your research, I'd love to see a better one, but I think you will find they are all worse.

So9

[tomahawk]

Any legal system is only going to be as good as the people who administer it.

We have a good number of bad apples in our judicial ranks, of this I am sure.

[Servant of the 9]

We have a good number of bad apples in our judicial ranks, of this I am sure.

Just like every other profession.

So9

[snowsislander]

I was just looking through the documents in this case, and the one where Judge Greer forbids the oral administration of sustenance is so far beyond the pale that I question not just his jurisprudence but his sanity.

[tomahawk]

The order of no food or water by mouth arguably transforms his order into unlawful assisted suicide (under the guise that this was her wish), which constitutes the crime of manslaughter under FL law.

I wish that the prosecutors would look into that, but don't expect it.

[Leatherneck_MT]

God's justice will be more severe.

[snowsislander]

Do your research, I'd love to see a better one, but I think you will find they are all worse.

From my observation, I would say that the Japanese judicial system is a good one (but by no means perfect, and in fact it is presently undergoing some modification), but it and Japanese society are too different from our own for me to make easy comparison.

For easier comparison, I would think Australia, Canada, and the UK would be the most natural. I personally am not a fan of Napoleonic systems and in my opinion that they are clearly worse than our own.