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Thread Six: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1414401/posts |
Posted on 03/21/2005 7:18:04 PM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a horse chat thread where we share ideas, ask for input from other horsemen, and talk about our riding and horse-keeping. We have a lot of different kinds of riders and horses, and a lot to share. In the previous threads we have had a great time talking through lessons, training, horse lamenesses, illnesses and pregnancies... and always sharing pictures and stories.
I always have a link to this thread on my profile page, so if you have something to say and can't find the thread in latest posts look for it there and wake the thread up!
I also have a ping list for horse threads that are of interest, and Becky pings everyone most mornings. Let Becky (Paynoattentionmanbehindthecurtain) and/or me know if you would like to be on the ping list. As FreeRepublic is a political site, our politics and other issues will probably blend in . There are many issues for horsemen that touch politics land use, animal rights/abuse cases that make the news . Legislation that might affect horse owners.
So... like the previous threads, this is intended as fun place to come and share stories, pictures, questions and chit-chat, unguided and unmoderated and that we come together here as friends. There are lots of ways of doing things and we all have our quirks, tricks and specialties that are neat to learn about.
Previous threads:
The FreeRepublic Saddle Club thread - thread ONE
The FreeRepublic Saddle Club thread - Thread TWO!
The FreeRepublic Saddle Club thread - Thread THREE!
The FreeRepublic Saddle Club thread! - Thread FOUR
New folk and occasional posters, jump right in and introduce yourselves, tell us about your horses, and post pictures if you've got them!
I want to be here for the imprint stuff. I don't think it is as effective if your a few days getting to it.
You can get a refund up to about 3 days before the ride. If I knew the ride would not fill, which it never has in the past, I'd just wait till then to pay the entry. My luck tho:)....and I've really been looking forward to doing this ride this year.
Becky
OK - I get it now. Lets see if any of this rambling makes a lick of sense.
The trail bit is really a curb bit designed to be ridden off contact (loose rein) and neck reined. It's too much in play to be ridden on contact. It would work on barrels, I'd think, (what do I know about barrels) but you'd have to be gung ho enough to ride it loose and rein only for turns.
The full cheek snaffle ought to be a good turning bit, it's what they were made for. But you would want to ride it on contact, and turn him by bending him with it. Yes, it'd be a more exaggerated, and more steady pulling kind of input. If you just try to pop it, like you do probably can with the curb... you won't get the same response.
Do you really want a ~bend~ in barrels? It seems to me when I've seen barrel turns they are more of a pivot than a bend. There is something that would conflict between the on contact soft bending neck a dressage rider would want using a snaffle and riding with a tie down where they are actually encouraged to lean on it. Leaning on it by it's nature stiffens the neck, which makes them unable to also simultaneously bend sideways with the cheek snaffle. They're gonna want to stay stiff and straight and pivot. You might as well have the curb bit on.
I really don't know barrels from bananas, I'm just thinking through how the machinery works.
Ok, got the scoop, per Keith himself. He started a thread about unfortunate names and that's what got him banned. He had emailed me those silly names and they were definitely funny. I'm thinking they thought he was a troll.
The way I have been taught is you want them to bend around not pivot:) but you can get too much bend. Also you want the bend in their bodies, not just their neck which is a common mistake that alot of barrel runners make. You do not want your horse swinging his butt out as he goes around the barrel which, I think, is what would happen if the pivot. The back end should follow the same path around the barrel as the front end went.
Your description of use of reins with my trail bit is where I get confused. I do two hand with that bit. I have always been under the impression that with any broken bit you can two hand as each side of the bit works independently of the other. That a broken curb bit does not necessaily mean you neck rein..?? BUT, on trail I do ride with slack in the reins. On barrels rightly or wrongly, I keep contact, which is why I think that it is a problem for Harley. He doesn't "like" that, but he does need help rating down for the turns. He's not lazy about running, and he will blow by the barrel with the snaffle, and tends to bend just his neck rather then his whole body.
I don't know if I'm describing this well enough:). My biggest problem is putting all the moves together at the right times.
You start rating them about 2 horse lengths from the barrel to get them time to get their butt's gathered up under them for the turns. When you get to the point to start the turn , slide inside hand down the rein, drop the outside rein grab the horn and push back, pull to your pocket, hold them in the turn with your outside leg, keep them off the barrel with you inside leg. about 1/3 of the way around the barrel your looking at the next barrel, 3/4 of the way around, your picking the outside rein back up to get them to move over to get ready for the next barrel about 1/2 to the next barrel you using your legs to get them in postion for the next turn.....to much to think about to remember to not pull too hard, but hard enough:) I just feel there might be bits that would work better then what I have, I just hate buying them and they not be right.
Becky
I didn't read all the posts so someone might have answered this but, a shanked bit is a one-handed, neck reining bit. For barrel racing I would always use a shanked bit.
A snaffle is a 2 handed bit, I wouldn't use it for barrels. My bit of choice for barrels would be a medium port with medium to long shanks. I don't like that correction bit you posted for barrels.
Bits are my "thing". I have lots of them and I do my studies on each one.
Are you saying you neck rein around barrels?
Becky
That's true, you can two hand it, just understand that when you bring it into play, you are getting contact on the bars of the mouth and on the chinstrap, and not so much on the corner of the mouth. You are getting as much or more 'stop' as 'turn'.
he will blow by the barrel with the snaffle, and tends to bend just his neck rather then his whole body.
With the full cheek snaffle, when you pull on both sides, you get pressure on the corner of the mouth and the bars for the 'woah'. But when you pull on just one side, you get pressure on the inside corner, but most of all, the cheek piece on the outside, that turns his face with very little woah.
Well, I just realized something, the horse I barrel raced on had been to national finals, all I had to do was sit and hang on but I was laying the reins lightly on her neck around the barrels. She turned on a dime if you gently laid the reins to her neck.
I guess I'm not the best person to give an opinion. You could call Poofy Graves and ask.
I had a magazine one time that had tons of pictures of bits in it and very good descriptions of how they worked and what they were good for.
The correction bit I have I got for Belle when I was trail riding after studying that magazine. During CTR, they want you to let your horse stop and graze occasionally to keep gut sounds good. She got very bad about just decideing to graze whenever she felt like it:) The argentine snaffle I was useing was just not getting the job done, she could walk right thru it. I needed something with a little more bite. That bit did the trick, I never had to go stronger and it has worked well for all my horses on trail.
Your right tho, for arena work it just isn't that great, especially for Harley.
Becky
That pretty much describes my problems. I'm pretty much, I think, looking for something that falls inbetween these two.
Becky
I think I'll just let you guys work through this while I have some breakfast and read ;~D
A "finished" barrel horse will do that. Harley is far from finished. I'd like to know what bits they used during the training? Was it a solid bit you ran him in? or a broken one?
Becky
Well, a kimberwick might do that... I think in my head that I think I'd run barrels one handed with a mechanical hackamore but no tie down. Not sure why I think that.
Yeah I'm actually out of here too. Time to stop talking about it and go try. If I've learned anything messing with horses, it's the only/best way to learn is to just go start doing it, something, anything. You'll get farther that way then talking or reading about it. You just have to pray you don't create a problem while you're learning:)
Becky
LOL, you think that because there is so much misinformation out there about the purpose of a tie down:)
My DIL is running her horse in a mechanical hack. But she uses a tie down.
When a horse is running full out, and needs to get him self gathered up as quickly as they do for the turn, a tie does nothing but help them accomplish that. It does not teach them to hold their head down, it is just an aid to make it easier for them to gather up, get their butts under them. I do not use one to trail ride in, because I don't want him to learn to lean on it.
I have thought a kimberwick might do the trick. I've been trying to locate one to borrow before I go buy. I know, I'm cheap:)
Now I'm holding off to see what kind of advise I get at the clinic.
Becky
It wasn't so much out of discrimination against tie downs, I'd have just thought it might interfere.
Me too. At one time, I tried a mechanical hackamore with my trail bridle on Tennessee and it kept getting stuck on the nose band of the halter part so I just switched back to a regular curb.
Oh, and BTW, I was not implying you were wrong to neck rein, I just was trying to figure if that was what you were saying.
If I remember correctly, I think Lance is one of the few that does have his horses pivot around a barrel rather then bend. It can be done, but I've been told it's very difficult and takes physical strength on the riders part, that's why women have trouble with it.
I don't know if all that is correct, I've just been told that. From all the successful riders I've watched, and the few how to videos, they all bend around.
Becky
A "hi there!" post to get this back on My Comments. :-D
Are you following all this bit talk Ruthy? Can we test you later? :~D
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