Posted on 01/11/2005 6:18:33 PM PST by malakhi
| Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. |
After a nine month hiatus, The Neverending Story, the granddaddy of daily threads, has returned to Free Republic. Originally begun on March 24, 2001, as a religious discussion thread, the NES evolved over time into a daily thread spanning a wide variety of topics. The new and improved Neverending Story will feature conversation on religion, politics, culture, current events, business, sports, family, hobbies, general fellowship and more. We welcome you to hang your hat in our little corner of FR. We ask you to abide by the FR posting rules and, even in the midst of serious debate, to keep the discussion friendly and respectful. Those who wish to "duke it out" are asked to take it over to the Smoky Backroom. I placed this thread in "General/Chat" for a reason, so play nice and have fun! :o)
Better than saying only those that are special and enlightened can understand the Trinity.
Are you also denying that you benefit from any Divine Revelation?
Not at all. If not for the Divine I have no reason or logic.
Perhaps you didn't understand the question. A "response" (especially a tangential one) is not the same thing as an "answer."
SD
or
" 2. One of the 15 incidents from the lives of Jesus or the Blessed Virgin Mary, such as the Annunciation or the Ascension, serving in Roman Catholicism as the subject of meditation during recitation of the rosary. "
by the term "mystery" in no ways implies what you think the word means, in terms of secret insider stuff only told to insiders after proper prostration to a caste of elders.
Words mean things.
SD
Thank you. SO it is not a question of the existence of "mystery" that you find objectionable, but the content of the mysteries. This is progress. I hope you can help explain it to the other "mystery-bashers" here.
So if you want to believe in the mystery of the trinity go ahead. Just don't claim it's the fullfillment of OT scripture...because it is NOT. If the mystery of the Virgin birth works for you, so be it. But don't try to tell us it's the fullfillment of OT scripture, because it is NOT.
You are entitled to your opinion.
Also, using "it's a mystery" as an explanation for doctrine that just doesn't match up is a convenient cop out....What concepts in Judaism, are "mystery" to you?
No, not really. If you admit to the existence of mystery, then you must admit that there are things which are revealed which go beyond the limits of human reason.
Explain to me how God made the universe out of nothing.
Explain how evil can exist in the created world of a Perfect Creator.
Explain how a series of animal sacrifices can atone for sin.
And remember, any supernatural mumbo-jumbo is a "cop out." These are your rules.
SD
What is it that makes you think that the Shema precludes a difference in roles? As understood, the Unity and Unicity of God is about His Being, His Essence, His Existence.
SD
Where do you get the idea that this is information reserved for the "special and enlightened"? If we are running some type of conspiracy, we are doing a horrible job of keeping the secret, seeing as how we publish in full view a complete Catechism of our beliefs.
The irony here is that it is you "mystery-bashers" who are really running the mystery religion. It is not we who believe there is a secret conspiracy to deny "the Truth" to the vast majority of people. It is not we who flatter ourselves that we have found the clues, the secret to unraveling this conspiracy and restoring the True Faith.
If not for the Divine I have no reason or logic.
Well, yeah, but that wasn't the question. Do you believe that only reason and logic lead us to God's Truth, or has He revealed Himself to us?
SD
I didn't realize God had a need to make Himself "feel superior"? He sure uses "mystery" a lot in Scripture.
Could be wrong but I think it is.
If not for the Divine I have no reason or logic.
Well, yeah, but that wasn't the question. Do you believe that only reason and logic lead us to God's Truth, or has He revealed Himself to us?
Sure he reveals himself. Look around you. I don't see the trinity anywhere tho.
You oughta read your own rhetoric someday. It's all about how the rest of the world is wrong, but you've got the true, secret understanding.
Sure he reveals himself. Look around you. I don't see the trinity anywhere tho.
Is "looking around you" sufficient? Is that our only source of knowledge about God?
SD
"This time".
Actually you're assessment of my attitude is very off the mark.
Is "looking around you" sufficient? Is that our only source of knowledge about God?
Stupid question.
Says the color analyst.
Stupid question.
Just answer it. Are there things we know about God that are not obvious to just "looking around"?
SD
Wouldn't THAT be a cushy job?
"Of course there is. I believe we must relieve ourselves of solid waste. If we don't we die dead as a doornail.
It is a mystery to me why we were made this way."
And this makes me an expert?
You so confidentally throw around the word "mystery" and expect everyone to accept this mysterious premise because you say so.
Face it, the teaching of the Trinity, Perpetual Virginity, Bodily Assumption, Papal Infallibility, among others is the teaching of a bunch of men. If it cannot be proved or explained it is simply classified as a "mystery".
It reminds me of the time when as a youth I was discouraged from asking questions in "Sunday School" with the simple "shut up", "don't ask questions", "whatever we tell you is the truth", "your job is to memorize and spit back the answers by the book".
It is a "mystery" to me why I have always found it necessary to ask questions while others accept without question simply because the "teacher" claims to have all knowledge.
At the very least I admit I know nothing while it appears you know just as much but claim to know everything.
No, I merely want the "mystery-bashers" to admit that they too have elements of their beliefs that are not provable or completley explainable.
The sooner y'all realize there is "mystery" to any supernatural belief, the sooner you will stop bashing us for admiting such.
SD
Once again, you show that your premise is true. I make no claim to knowing everything, only that:
#1: There are some things revealed to us that reason could never deduce.
#2: Given these revelations, we are allowed to use our minds to contemplate them.
My esteemed opponents, in their zeal, tack between denying both of these points, though this denial is contradictory.
SD
Are you joining me in admitting you, also, know nothing?
Do you deny Divine Revelation?
SD
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.