Terrifying, isn't it? We almost had Gomer Pyle for president.
Posted on 01/11/2005 6:18:33 PM PST by malakhi
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After a nine month hiatus, The Neverending Story, the granddaddy of daily threads, has returned to Free Republic. Originally begun on March 24, 2001, as a religious discussion thread, the NES evolved over time into a daily thread spanning a wide variety of topics. The new and improved Neverending Story will feature conversation on religion, politics, culture, current events, business, sports, family, hobbies, general fellowship and more. We welcome you to hang your hat in our little corner of FR. We ask you to abide by the FR posting rules and, even in the midst of serious debate, to keep the discussion friendly and respectful. Those who wish to "duke it out" are asked to take it over to the Smoky Backroom. I placed this thread in "General/Chat" for a reason, so play nice and have fun! :o)
You have to ante to fold. Not every hand worth chasing though:')There is a time limit too. You going to raise, check or what?
Tell me what I'm supposed to comment on if you can even remember what you had been talking about!
The Rapture.
I noticed some variances with the following verses, depending on which bible a person uses.
Luke 17 (KJV)
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
The verse in question is 37. I did a search on the word eagles. Got this.
From the Greek
105 aetos ah-et-os'
1) an eagle: since eagles do not usually go in quest of carrion, this may to a vulture that resembles an eagle
2) an eagle as a standard (Roman Military)
Ok... so why the mention of carrion? So, I checked other bibles.
Luke 17 (NIV)
37"Where, Lord?" they asked. He replied, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."
Luke 17 (NASB)
37 And answering they said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered."
Luke 17 (AMP)
37Then they asked Him, Where, Lord? He said to them, Wherever the dead body is, there will the vultures or eagles be gathered together.
Luke 17 (NLT)
37"Lord, where will this happen?" the disciples asked. Jesus replied, "Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near."[1]
Footnotes
1. 17:37 Greek Wherever the carcass is, the vultures gather.
Luke 17 (WE)
37 They asked him, `Where will this be, Lord?' He said, `The big birds that eat meat will go to the place where the dead body is.'
So, let's look at some parallel verse from Matthew.
Matthew 24 (KJV)
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
It seems that corpse and vultures would be the more proper reading. Notice that in verse 39, the wicked who perished in the flood are described as being taken away. The wicked are taken first, not the righteous. Next, it tells us that it shall be exactly the same at the arrival of Messiah. In the days of Noah, those taken first perished, and so it will be again at the arrival of Messiah. The answer given by Yehoshua refers to the vultures gathering over the bodies of the wicked, those taken first, which are all slain as the Messiah arrives.
Now, let's look at the tares and wheat:
Matthew 13 (KJV)
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Yehoshua then explains the parable in detail to His disciples:
Matthew 13
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Notice the timing of events described, and how it compares with those taken first in Matthew 24:39-42. At the end of the world, when the time for the harvest of humanity has come, it is not the righteous who are gathered first, it is the wicked! The wicked are taken and dealt with first, while the people of YHWH are still among them.
Now, go back and re-read Luke 17:26-30. Sudden destruction comes upon the wicked at the arrival of Messiah. They will all perish.
Revelation 3 (all the following are from the KJV)
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Revelation 3
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Revelation 16
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Revelation 22
7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Revelation 22
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Revelation 22
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
You can't surprise the wicked if you take away the righteous first. Messiah is supposed to come quickly, like a thief in the night, so people are to repent, live righteously and be watchful, lest they be caught by surprise. If you remove the righteous first, the wicked are going to notice and NOT be surprised.
Revelation 16 shows the last seven plagues being poured out on the unrepentant wicked of the earth. Through verse 12 the first six of the plagues are poured out, and THEN in verse 15-
Revelation 16
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Messiah has NOT come yet at the time of the sixth plague! Notice that the seventh plague then falls in verse 17-
Revelation 16 (KJV)
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
At the time the seventh plague is announcing the time for earth has come to an end, and the arrival of Messiah follows. So, Messiah does not come to earth until after all seven plagues have been poured out on the wicked. The faithful are NOT removed at any point prior to these plagues, they have endured them without fear of being affected by them.
Psalm 91 (JPS)
5 Thou shalt not be afraid of the terror by night, nor of the arrow that flieth by day;
6 Of the pestilence that walketh in darkness, nor of the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
7 A thousand may fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; it shall not come nigh thee.
8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold, and see the recompense of the wicked.
9 For thou hast made YHWH who is my refuge, even the Most High, thy habitation.
10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy tent.
11 For He will give His angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
Proverbs 10:30 The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.
From what I read, there is no foundation for a pre-trib rapture or removal of the righteous at all.
Howdy all, just checking in. Been a busy few days. Spent Friday and today finishing up quarter end/ year end payroll stuff, and had the kids this weekend. I'm glad January is over! :o)
I think that is what you did the other times, too.
I'm not angry with you, I just get tired of you pretending to want to discuss anything.
That's the third time now that you have bailed on the 'rapture'! lol
You make these posts asking people to raise their wagers or call, then when you are called you fold and run again. It's gets old.
Be back in a little bit. Busy right now. We just had a baby!
A human baby, related to you, or an animal that you own, or someone else?
Are you talking about Rose of Sharn's new foal?
You like horses? Come on over:')
This rapture debate was between Mack, Quester and Mal, I believe. Maybe I did but I don't think I made any comments. It saddens me when I see bail, pretended etc but hey if that's what you think that's ok, I guess. You and I discussed the rapture awhile back. Both of us ended up firm in what we believe and if I remember correctly it got a little ugly.. I told you I would look this over and pray about how to respond. That's the best I can do.
It's an open thread, is it not?
You and I discussed the rapture awhile back.
No. We didn't. I brought it up two different times and each time you had an excuse.
One time you were too tired or something and the next time you couldn't handle so much at once, but you and I didn't discuss the rapture.
You've never addressed the verses I posted from the NT.
They are beautiful animals but not where my interest is.
Found something while checking previous posts. I made my comment to Mack in post #1069
Maybe I did but I don't think I made any comments.
Your #1108 reminded me of the two other times that we didn't discuss the rapture and how I needed to repost to see if you were done 'looking into it' yet.
To: All
To anyone that gets left behind:
Don't lock the thread. We'll be back in 7 years with a new moderator! :')
1,108 posted on 01/24/2005 9:24:14 PM EST by CindyDawg
Left behind and 7 years. Rapture and tribulation?
Nope. We sure didn't. Found our second lack of discussion.
This is the last line of my second posting.
Again, hopefully this time you will attempt to show where you think the NT is wrong.
19,594 posted on 03/10/2004 7:49:26 AM EST by ET(end tyranny) (Isaiah 47:4 - Our Redeemer, YHWH of hosts is His name, The Holy One of Israel.)
Here's your comment to my second posting
To: ET(end tyranny)
Dang Et. I can hardly get my eyes open yet . You wxpect me to read all of this right now? lol.
19,595 posted on 03/10/2004 8:07:17 AM EST by CindyDawg
Here's my comment to your above post
To: CindyDawg
Dang Et. I can hardly get my eyes open yet . You wxpect me to read all of this right now? lol.
That's what you say every time I post it! lol ;') But, it'll keep, I have things to do today wo will check in now and then.
19,631 posted on 03/10/2004 12:47:46 PM EST by ET(end tyranny) (Isaiah 47:4 - Our Redeemer, YHWH of hosts is His name, The Holy One of Israel.)
And here's the last post you made to me on the subject from the previous thread, regarding my comment above.
To: ET(end tyranny)
lol. I didn't realize that. I'll try to look at them tonight. I'm sorry but that much at one posting overwhelming to me :')
19,636 posted on 03/10/2004 12:52:11 PM EST by CindyDawg
Here's the link to the thread where I located the above. Our second non chat on the rapture occured late in the thread so there isn't a lot to scroll through after the above to see that you never did address the verses I posted.
I find it humorous that you remember it getting ugly when it never occured at all! LOL
A grand slam. I feel like I'm at Dennys?:') Morning to you too.
Proverbs 10:30 The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.
You're right ... the righteous are not removed.
It's simply that some of them meet Christ on His way back to earth (and return with Him).I Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Still on the road?
What's up doc?
BigMack
Terrifying, isn't it? We almost had Gomer Pyle for president.
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