Posted on 01/11/2005 6:18:33 PM PST by malakhi
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Thanks for your participation in the ongoing conversation about what being a human being, is.
Thanks, for your non answer. It says a lot though.
Those verses seem to be in contradiction to the Tanach.
What is the contradiction ?
Who is the Prince of Peace?
The Christ (i.e. the Messiah).Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Sorry ~ I don't get into scripture quoting games, you do understand that don't you?
Are we living in peaceful times? (I think not) Why is the title Prince of Peace given to Jesus when we obviously are NOT living in peaceful times?
False peace?
Something he is supposed to do later? If so, they why has he already been given a title for something that he didn't do?
Would it have been appropriate to have called John Kerry, Mr. President, just because he ran for President? No, it wouldn't have been. We don't bestow honors upon people BEFORE they have earned them. So, why do you consider Jesus to be the Prince of Peace?
Ohhhhh yeahhhhhhhh. I understand. :)
2. The Patriots are the better team.
3. Big Ben has a potentially great future but he has been exposed by the Jets and Pat's as a rookie.
Yep, yep and yep. That early long FG was a bad omen. There was no doubt about it. So much for that voodoo.
SD
Yeah, that's what I mean. There's no doubt those Oiler teams would have won the Super Bowl, had they not run into the Steeler juggernaut in the AFC game. Same thing here. I think this year or 2001, the AFC champ was a shoo-in.
SD
The Oilers had a specific nemesis. Then again, they didn't lose at home. So I can see it either way. Maybe we're the Oilgles.
SD
Have you ever opened the door and gotten into a conversation with a Jehovah's Witness and they start reading Scripture from the Bible?
I've tried to get their Bible from them to read some text back to them and a tug-of-war usually ensues. :)
How many different Christians denominations are there, all reading from the same Bible?
That's what I meant by when I said we all have our own interpretations.
You ain't getting it blackie.
There is only ONE interpretation.
ETs interpretation.
BigMack
You consider Jesus to be the Messiah (I don't). You equate those verses with Jesus, saying that Jesus is the Prince of Peace.
Are we living in peaceful times? (I think not) Why is the title Prince of Peace given to Jesus when we obviously are NOT living in peaceful times?
Jesus isn't here now ... is he ?
He will bring His peace with Him when He returns.
I do not argue that all of the Messianic ministry has been fulfilled ... we are all still waiting for that fulfillment.
Something he is supposed to do later? If so, they why has he already been given a title for something that he didn't do?
It is God (through Isaiah) Who bestowed the title.
Undoubtably God is bestowing such a title upon the Messiah (whoever he may be) ... though peace has not yet come.
God can see the end of things in a way that we cannot.Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
He will bring His peace with Him when He returns.
So, he is NOT the Prince of Peace, yet? But, will be, when/if he brings peace.
See what I mean about awarding an honor or title that hasn't been earned yet. ;)
Undoubtably God is bestowing such a title upon the Messiah (whoever he may be) ... though peace has not yet come.
Now, we're getting somewhere. Whoever it may be. Are you saying it is possible that it might NOT be the person we know as Jesus?
Gee MAck, how many ways do you interpret GATHER FIRST THE TARES?
Maybe none of them are right?
Hey ET pull my finger. :)
BigMack
Undoubtably God is bestowing such a title upon the Messiah (whoever he may be) ... though peace has not yet come.
Now, we're getting somewhere. Whoever it may be. Are you saying it is possible that it might NOT be the person we know as Jesus?
I believe it to be Jesus ... based upon what He has already done.
God knows.
Is there scripture in support of a false messiah that shows up prior to the True Messiah?
Certain christians also believe that a false peace (among other manipulations) will be established by one who is referred to as the Anti-Christ.
Ultimately, the determination of whether the peace is a true one ... or false ... will be based upon whether it lasts.
Is a "lasting peace"...1, 2, 3, 4, or more generations...or forever? What about the 1000 year reign? What comes after that? IOW, at what point do Christian recognize him as either the real messiah...or the Anti-Christ? Also, is he supposed to be a "man" to Christians....or something other than that? If he is suppose to be Jesus, how will he arrive on the scene? Malakhi, do Jews believe their Messiah will bring a permanent peace....or a long but temporary peace?
"Christians believe that the Messiah (in the person of Jesus) did perform miraculous works. Not only that, but that these works were prophesied to occur within the saving/healing/providing context of the Messianic ministry.
Quester, you quoted passages from Isaiah 35. I just reread Isaiah 34 and 35....and I can see those passages as describing what's going on in Iraq presently....more than them describing miracles of Jesus. I do not see it as a prophesy about a messiah at all. Also, IMO, every word of those verses doesn't have to be taken in the literal sense. "The blind see" can be taken in a figurative sense also. Example: I used to be blind, but now i see the truth. (of course you would disagree. ) ;-) Then again, if you want to be more literal, there is no need to dismiss modern medicine and technology as "miraculous" by standards during biblical times. Both can do much to heal/cure/improve health as well as environmental difficulties. I'm not saying the real meaning should be taken literally in that sense....just that it is another way of looking at it. Again, i just don't see it saying that a messiah performs those miracles. It's like someone just randomly plucked a verse out of the OT, totally out of context, and claims it for Jesus. Gotta read it in context, IMO.
Is there scripture that supports messiah will perform miracles? I was under the impression the OT almost instructs us to not rely on miracles. Of course i can't come up with a verse off of the top of my head right now....and i may be wrong.
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