Better quality is higher money! 
Posted on 12/21/2004 7:32:12 PM PST by shellshocked
I just got screwed by Dell trying to buy one of their laptops. It seems they are out of Pentium M chips and won't tell their customers, so my wife’s Christmas present is doomed.
I am now looking at maybe a 17" wide Apple laptop for the wife. If it can run windows applications, even remotely well, I might just buy one.
This is a Christmas present, so I am REALLY short on time here, and this is a great place to ask. There is also an Apple store near my house. Buying over the Internet from Dell is unreliable. If it isn't in my grubby paws, I don’t believe it will actually show. Dell Hell.
Any thought or suggestions? Thank you. She’ll appreciate it.
You may be right about Staples people being less than computer experts, but they are talking about HP machines made recently. I heard the same complaints about HP machines in other stores too. Can that be an indicator of sorts?
The iBook starts at $899 (you can get them cheaper when new models come out), is solid as a rock, has great batterly life, and a great wireless antenna.
I'm not a techie. I don't want to build a computer from scratch, or to spend hours with it debugging and checking for viruses, adware, spyware, whatever.
I am a "techie". I develop web sites and administer Linux servers at work. I have built my own computer from scratch and can deal with all that other nonsense if I have to. Guess what? I use a Mac at home, too, because I also appreciate a computer that just works when all I want to do is surf the web or type something up.
But as an added bonus for the "techies", OSX is a BSD Unix-based operating system so that means you can do just about anything you'd do on a Unix or Linux server with your Mac, too.
As for software, remember that as a Unix-based OS, OSX can also run quite a bit of software ported over from the Linux and Unix world. If you're halfway decent at reading compiler error messages and writing C, you can probably port some stuff that hasn't been officially ported, too. I have.
"The iBook starts at $899"
Excellent point. Now, if Apple can get an iBook down to $670, they will drive China-Mart out of the business. I bet they can, but I doubt there has been a great calling. Wal-Mart, love 'em or hate 'em, understands the low end market better than anyone. They know a $250 savings is a deal maker.
It seems many on FR are fairly well off, meaning $250 isn't much to them. That isn't a bad thing, as I am also oneof those. It's just that many familes see $250 as all the money in the world, and when their kid goes to college on student loans, a $650 laptop is an incredible buy. If Wal-Mart can get that to $450 they might even sell twice as many of them.
I didn't think of that aspect, of running UNIX programs on the Mac. I don't know anyoff the top of my head, but that is interesting. I've written some UNIX apps on the corporate side. I'm a little rusty, but that might just be some fun.
I also look at the Mac as a great product, just under supported by the industry on whole. Simply economics and critical mass issues, but, maybe I might look at doing some Mac products.
I spent about 9 years doing technical support in a campus computer lab years ago. I could almost always (A) understand what the problem was and (B) explain how to fix it verbally if the computer was a Mac. I rarely had to get up and help the student fix their problem. If it was a Windows PC, all bets were off and I'd just get up and go look at it. Admittedly, Windows has gotten a lot better but there is still so much more that can go wrong, especially because hardware and hardware quality is a much bigger issue in the PC world.
When the models change, I've seen the old models in the $699 range. Limited supplies, of course. I have a 12" iBook that's over 3 years old. I've maxed out the memory and upgraded the hard drive but it's still going strong. The only problem I have is that the video card only has 8MB of RAM (and can't be upgraded) but since I don't play a lot of games, I've been able to live with it. I don't know about the Powerbooks but the iBook is incredibly solid and I've carried mine around in a canvas bag. The iBooks are great if you don't need top-end. The Powerbooks offer a few very nice features that the iBook doesn't have (I'd love to have the dual monitor capability, for example) but the iBook is an incredibly good machine being Apple's "entry level" laptop.
I'd also suggest that you look into the wireless networking if you weren't thinking about it. Apple puts top-notch antennas in their laptops and they have great range.
I bet they can, but I doubt there has been a great calling. Wal-Mart, love 'em or hate 'em, understands the low end market better than anyone. They know a $250 savings is a deal maker.
Remember that Apple is still a hardware maker, they don't let their resellers discount, and they really aren't interested in the low-end market. They are more like a Volkswagen, Audi, or BMW than Hyundai or Kia. Their low-end stuff is still feature-rich and built well.
It seems many on FR are fairly well off, meaning $250 isn't much to them.
Unfortunately, I think the poor also don't pay enough attention to quality. There is a point where what you are buying is simply "too cheap" and either doesn't work properly or simply doesn't last. We gave our old Blueberry iMac (about 5 years old now) to my mother-in-law when the HP desktop that we bought her, not long after buying the iMac, because it was a couple of hundred dollars cheaper gave up the ghost. Had we just gotten her an iMac, wouldn't have needed our old one.
If Wal-Mart can get that to $450 they might even sell twice as many of them.
They could get there if the software and OS writers wouldn't keep escallating the hardware requirements for their products. If you look at an iBook or Dell or whatever that's sold at a certain price point today, it probably has substantially better capabilities thant he same laptop at the same price point a year ago. The prices don't come down because the current standard is set to a price point rather than a particular technical capability.
I successfully pitched an iBook to a friend who is a Solaris system administrator. I've also read that one can spot plenty of iBooks at Linux developer conferences, though I'm not sure if they are running OSX or Yellow Dog Linux. Because OSX now comes with an X-Windows Server as part of the OS, the iBook is a great machine for doing Unix system administration.
I've written some UNIX apps on the corporate side. I'm a little rusty, but that might just be some fun.
Well, OSX has Java, Perl, C/C++, Python, etc.
I also look at the Mac as a great product, just under supported by the industry on whole. Simply economics and critical mass issues, but, maybe I might look at doing some Mac products.
What I'd suggest doing, if you are looking for a market, is writing dual-use software that runs on both Linux and the Mac. You can find Linux distributions that will run completely off of a bootable CD-ROM so you don't even need to have a dedicated Unix machine to play with Linux.
You can also fiddle around with web stuff really easily with OSX. It runs Apache and PHP and you can add a freeware Java application server like Tomcat easily enough if you want to play around. You've also got access to databases like MySQL and PostgreSQL for free.
If you can get it, I recommend the $50 upgrade to a 5400 RPM hard drive. After more RAM, this is the best thing you can do for your computer.
I'm the proud owner of an original 1 GHz 17" Powerbook. The 17" screen is phenomenal -- being able to have two Word documents side-by-side on the screen is a major productivity enhancer.
We done need nau steengking productivity enhancement!
"dELl" Guapo
FACT 1: Macs are more expensive.
There are no bargain-basement stripped-down OS-less Macs.
FACT 2: No one where you live supports Macs.
Had I ever needed to call someone, I'm not sure who I would have called.
FACT 3: There's nothing written for a Mac.
Duh! Nothing that runs on a PC will run on Mac OS. Some vendors like Microsoft, Adobe, Quicken and others write products for both platforms, but who knows about tomorrow as Apple continues its 20 year slide into oblivion.
FACT 4: Macs do not work with PCs.
Of course not! Remember, Macs don't have a floppy disk drive and a completely different chipset. Want to transfer files? Don't be silly. See #3.
FACT 5: Macs DO crash.
My Powerbook crashes at least three times a year. You call that stable?
And you Mac users out there can't argue with this either! Don't be fooled by the Mac user lies.
FACT 1: Macs are more expensive.
There are no bargain-basement stripped-down OS-less Macs.
FACT 2: No one where you live supports Macs.
Had I ever needed to call someone, I'm not sure who I would have called.
FACT 3: There's nothing written for a Mac.
Duh! Nothing that runs on a PC will run on Mac OS. Some vendors like Microsoft, Adobe, Quicken and others write products for both platforms, but who knows about tomorrow as Apple continues its 20 year slide into oblivion.
FACT 4: Macs do not work with PCs.
Of course not! Remember, Macs don't have a floppy disk drive and a completely different chipset. Want to transfer files? Don't be silly. See #3.
FACT 5: Macs DO crash.
My Powerbook crashes at least three times a year. You call that stable?
And you Mac users out there can't argue with this either! Don't be fooled by the Mac user lies.
Better quality is higher money!
Great attitude....A happy woman makes for a happy home....
The initial price isn't everything. I have a Mac desktop and a Win laptop. The Mac desktop is trouble-free. I seem to go through a Win laptop every year or so. Once it was a Win upgrade that the hardware wouldn't handle - processor speed and memory size were both problems. Now, my year old laptop has a nasty virus. I somehow missed a virus protection update. I've invested hours in trying to clean it up with no luck.
I'm going to buy a Mac lap-top after I see what their new products are. I'm done with spending a lot of time updating virus protection programs, recovering from crashes, saving important stuff every 10 mins., etc.
And I live very near an Apple store. They have free advice and free classes. I won't have to pay for support that is poor at best.
I used to like playing with the computer, upgrading it, and just fiddling with it. Now, I prefer to surf. The Mac is better for that.
Be sure and tell us what your wife decides.
Um, I have an Apple store next to me. That's my support place. Virtual PC allows Macs to run Windows software. Macs are not expensive when considering the quality and features. Macs DO work with PC and can use the same netwroks to transfer files. Flopppies are a thing of the past.
Was that deliberate... "Apple" ..seams.. "appealing"
Merry Christmas!
(I'm just rehashing the inevitable 1987-vintage arguments I hear about Macs. It's supposed to be a joke) ;)
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.