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The Hobbit Hole XIX: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1329893/posts |
Posted on 12/20/2004 9:01:36 AM PST by ecurbh
New verse:
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Upon the hearth the fire is red, |
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Still round the corner there may wait |
Home is behind, the world ahead, |
But if you've never read the books, you're in for a treat with regard to Faramir. They really, really changed him for the movie - more so than any other character. He's good...but in the books, wowsers!
Did you see Wehnam in Van Helsing? He was hilarious! The guy is very versatile!
LOL!!!
Oh...well...them too!
1. Some sort of spirit-y thing.
2. Yeah, but it was done better
3. He's tempted through his concern for Frodo. The Ring turns good to bad...
4. No, read, "The Hobbit" and then LotR and then Silmarillion.
5. There's a lot of debate. Let's say "God" and leave it at that. Form has changed because he has been reborn.
I'm ashamed to admit it...but the only other movie I've seen him in was Crocodile Hunter... *blush*
I have rather young siblings! That's my excuse for watchin' that...thing.
Tolkien said in a letter that nobody could have overcome the power of the ring, hence the ending scene. RE Sam, I always thought the ring was tempting him too, as it did everyone.
IMO, a hobbit was entrusted with carrying the ring, since, as ordinary folk, hobbit's ambitions were also ordinary, and thus, less dangerous than the ambition of the great folk...the whole concept is very fitting, and resonates to some degree with the concept behind the founding of the USA, which was meant be a country in which ordinary folk would have individual freedom and be left to their own devices, rather than a country in which glamourous and majestic folk would do great things for the betterment of all.
I kind of think the Hobbit shouldn't be read first, since, being written for kids, it's not at all in the same league as the LOTR, which was written for adults. When I first read all that stuff in college, I was pretty bored with the Hobbit, but was instantly and completely captivated by LOTR.
Apologies for the mini rant, if it sounded like one.
Hey, you know what? The other day I was in Aldis and Steve and I were looking a frozen soup. Lobster bisque. Debating whether or not we should try it, you know? This lady comes up to us and says that the soup is excellent. She had a very thick german accent and we struck up a conversation. She told me she was so glad to have Aldis here now, they've been in Germany for a long time. I asked her where they got the name and she said that two brothers opened the stores...one took north Germany and the other took southern Germany. Their names were Albert and Dietrict (sp?).
The conversation turned to Volkswagens, since we had just got back from seeing my little yellow Bug and she said they are called Kaefers in Germany...with a very soft r sound...almost like KAY-fuh. Pretty interesting tidbit of info, eh? At least it was to me!
Anyway, we didn't get the soup. Too expensive.
Yes, but it didn't go exactly like it did in the film. I think I'll leave it at that so it's not spoilt when you read it.
4. Should I read the "Simillarion" (spelling?) before the LOTR?
Definately ~NOT~. Silmarillion is hard to read. You can start either with the Hobbit, which is a more childlike, very fast read, or jump into LoTR. Many who love LoTR still can't get through Silmarillion. I use is as a resource to look up things, but have never read it through.
You shoulda gone for the soup!
Maybe for my birthday...
I do not exactly know (see my answer to question 4), but there is quite a bit of information at Encyclopedia of Arda: Sauron
2. In the book, did Frodo really decide to keep the ring instead of throwing it into the lava?
Absolutely.
Then Frodo stirred and spoke with a clear voice, indeed with a voice clearer and more powerful than Sam had ever heard him use, and it rose above the throb and turmoil of Mount Doom, ringing in the roof and walls.
'I have come,' he said. 'But I do not choose now to do what I came to do. I will not do this deed. The Ring is mine!' And suddenly, as he set it on his finger, he vanished from Sam's sight.
The Lord of the Rings, Book 6, Chapter 3 "Mount Doom"
3. When Sam hesitates to give the ring back, is it because he is tempted, or is he concerned about Frodo's state?
Both, I think. After Sam takes the ring from Frodo, he endures his own temptation by the ring:
He felt that he had from now on only two choices: to forbear the Ring, though it would torment him; or to claim it, and challenge the Power that sat in its dark hold beyond the valley of shadows. Already the Ring tempted him, gnawing at his will and reason. Wild fantasies arose in his mind; and he saw Samwise the Strong, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-dûr. And then all the clouds rolled away, and the white sun shone, and at his command the vale of Gorgoroth became a garden of flowers and trees and brought forth fruit. He had only to put on the Ring and claim it for his own, and all this could be.
The Lord of the Rings Book 6, Chapter 1 "The Tower of Cirith Ungol"
And later, as he prepares to give the ring back to Frodo, Tolkien writes "Now it had come to it, Sam felt reluctant to give up the Ring and burden his master with it again."
I think these two episodes are combined in the movie.
4. Should I read the "Simillarion" (spelling?) before the LOTR?
No. I've read LOTR at least a half-dozen times, but have yet to make it through Silmarillion.
5. Who sends Gandalf back and why has his form changed?
The Valar (the gods of Middle-Earth) and/or Illuvatar (the creator) sent him back to finish his task of opposing Sauron. He replaced Saruman in the order of wizards and takes over his 'white' designation.
[Gandalf] laid his hand on Gimli's head, and the Dwarf looked up and laughed suddenly. 'Gandalf!' he said. 'But you are all in white!''Yes, I am white now,' said Gandalf. 'Indeed I am Saruman, one might almost say, Saruman as he should have been.'
The Lord of the Rings Book 3, Chapter 5 "The White Rider"
I read somewhere that Tolkien considered Gandalf to be an "angel," either in Tolkien's letters or in one of professor Shippey's books on Tolkien.
But G. is not, of course, a human being (Man or Hobbit). There are naturally no precise modern terms to say what he was. I wd. venture to say that he was an incarnate 'angel'– strictly an [] that is, with the other Istari, wizards, 'those who know', an emissary from the Lords of the West, sent to Middle-earth, as the great crisis of Sauron loomed on the horizon. By 'incarnate' I mean they were embodied in physical bodies capable of pain, and weariness, and of afflicting the spirit with physical fear, and of being 'killed', though supported by the angelic spirit they might endure long, and only show slowly the wearing of care and labour.
With you there! You don't "read" the Silmarillion; you "make it through"!
I am currently trying it again. My wife has read it, my 18yob has read it twice I think, and they both say it pretty much rocks after like the first hundred pages.
So I'm slogging through again, and am nearing 100. It's picking up.
This time, I mean not to be defeated by it!
Dan
Ecurbh.... you're awesome, and very thoughtful to give such a detailed response. Thank you!
Whoo-hoo! I think once you understand the rythm and story-pattern of Silmarillion you enjoy it much more.
And when you get to "The Tale of Turin Turambar", remember this - Tolkien made it a lot less bleak than the original story.
~sigh~
Nana's got shingles.
and so it begins...
Oh, dear... has Luke had chicken pox? I think I've heard shingles can trigger chicken pox in other people...
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