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The Hobbit Hole XIX: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1329893/posts |
Posted on 12/20/2004 9:01:36 AM PST by ecurbh
New verse:
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Upon the hearth the fire is red, |
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Still round the corner there may wait |
Home is behind, the world ahead, |
We'll bring a great big negotiatin' flag. And likker.
Ooh...don't wanna do that without warning. Remember, he's tetchy...and has plenty o' ammunition.
Corin: Rosie's adventure? We were hardly involved. All we did was give her a little nudge out of the door...
This is a good point to have a little discussion about The Hobbit!
We all of course remember in "An Unexpected Party" how Gandalf set up the meeting that coerced Bilbo into going on his adventure... In the "Unfinished Tales", we hear The rest of the story
Tolkien: There are, of course, quite a lot of links between The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings that are not clearly set out. They were mostly written or sketched out, but cut out to lighten the boat: such as Gandalf's exploratory journeys, his relations with Aragorn and Gondor; all the movements of Gollum, until he took refuge in Moria, and so on. I actually wrote in full an account of what really happened before Gandalf's visit to Bilbo and the subsequent "Unexpected Party," as seen by Gandalf himself. It was to have come in I during a looking-back conversation in Minas Tirith; but it had to go, and is only represented in brief in Appendix A pp. 374-76, though the difficulties that Gandalf had with Thorin are omitted....He [Gandalf] would say no more that day. But later we brought the matter again, and he told us the whole strange story; how he came to arrange the journey to Erebor, why he thought of Bilbo, and how he persuaded the proud Thorin Oakenshield to take him into his company. I cannot remember all the tale now, but we gathered that to begin with Gandalf was thinking only of the defence of the West against the Shadow.
"I was very troubled at that time," he said, "for Saruman was hindering all my plans. I knew that Sauron had arisen again and would soon declare himself, and I knew that he was preparing for a great war. How would he begin? Would he try first to re-occupy Mordor, or would he first attack the chief strongholds of his enemies? I thought then, and I am sure now, that to attack Lórien and Rivendell, as soon as he was strong enough was his original plan. It would have been a much better plan for him, and much worse for us.
"You may think that Rivendell was out of his reach, but I did not think so. The state of things in the North was very bad. The Kingdom under the Mountain and the strong Men of Dale were no more. To resist any force that Sauron might send to regain the northern passes in the mountains and the old lands of Angmar there were only the Dwarves of the Iron Hills, and behind them lay a desolation and a Dragon. The Dragon Sauron might use with terrible effect. Often I said to myself: "I must find some means of dealing with Smaug. But a direct stroke against Dol Guldur is needed still more. We must disturb Sauron's plans. I must make the Council see that.'
"Those were my dark thoughts as I jogged along the road. I was tired, and I was going to the Shire for a short rest, after being away from it for more than twenty years. I thought that if I put them out of my mind for a while I might perhaps find some way of dealing with these troubles. And so I did indeed, though I was not allowed to put them out of my mind.
"For just as I was nearing Bree I was overtaken by Thorin Oakenshield, who lived then in exile beyond the north-western borders of the Shire. To my surprise he spoke to me; and it was at that moment that the tide began to turn.
"He was troubled too, so troubled that he actually asked for my advice. So I went with him to his halls in the Blue Mountains, and I listened to his long tale. I soon understood that his heart was hot with brooding on his wrongs, and the loss of the treasure of his forefathers, and burdened too with the duty of revenge upon Smaug that he bad inherited. Dwarves take such duties very seriously.
"I promised to help him if I could. I was as eager as he was to see the end of Smaug, but Thorin was all for plans of battle and war, as if he were really King Thorin the Second, and I could see no hope in that. So I left him and went off to the Shire, and picked up the threads of news. It was a strange business. I did no more than follow the lead of 'chance,' and made many mistakes on the way.
Somehow I had been attracted by Bilbo long before, as a child, and a young hobbit: he had not quite come of age when I had last seen him. He had stayed in my mind ever since, with his eagerness and his bright eyes, and his love of tales, and his questions about the wide world outside the Shire. As soon as I entered the Shire I heard news of him. He was getting talked about, it seemed. Both his parents had died early for Shire-folk, at about eighty; and he had never married. He was already growing a bit queer, they said, and went off for days by himself. He could be seen talking to strangers, even Dwarves.
"Even Dwarves!' Suddenly in my mind these three things came together: the great Dragon with his lust, and his keen hearing and scent; the sturdy heavy-booted Dwarves with their old burning grudge; and the quick, soft-footed Hobbit, sick at heart (I guessed) for a sight of the wide world. I laughed at myself; but I went off at once to have a look at Bilbo, to see what twenty years bad done to him, and whether he was as promising as gossip seemed to make out. But be was not at home. They shook their heads in Hobbiton when I asked after him. 'Off again,' said one Hobbit. It was Holman, the gardener, I believe. 'Off again. He'll go right off one of these days, if he isn't careful. Why, I asked him where he was going, and when he would be back, and I don't know he says; and then he looks at me queerly. It depends if I meet any, Holman, he says. It's the Elves New Year tomorrow! A pity, and him so kind a body. You wouldn't find a better from the Downs to the River.'
"Better and better!' I thought. 'I think I shall risk it.' Time was getting short. I had to be with the White Council in August at the latest, or Saruman would have his way and nothing would be done. And quite apart from greater matters, that might prove fatal to the quest: the power in Dol Guldur would not leave any attempt on Erebor unhindered, unless he had something else to deal with.
"So I rode off back to Thorin in haste, to tackle the difficult task of persuading him to put aside his lofty designs and go secretly – and take Bilbo with him. Without seeing Bilbo first. It was a mistake, and nearly proved disastrous. For Bilbo had changed, of course. At least, he was getting rather greedy and fat, and his old desires had dwindled down to a sort of private dream. Nothing could have been more dismaying than to find it actually in danger of coming true! He was altogether bewildered, and made a complete fool of himself. Thorin would have left in a rage, but for another strange chance, which I will mention in a moment.
"But you know how things went, at any rate as Bilbo saw them. The story would sound rather different, if I had written it. For one thing he did not realize at all how fatuous the Dwarves thought him, nor how angry they were with me. Thorin was much more indignant and contemptuous than he perceived He was indeed contemptuous from the beginning, and thought then that I had planned the whole affair simply so as to make a mock of him. It was only the map and the key that saved the situation.
"But I had not thought of them for years. It was not until I got to the Shire and had time to reflect on Thorin's tale that I suddenly remembered the strange chance that had put them in my hands; and it began now to look less like chance.
Absolutely true. And isn't it great that we have so many different heritages? The world would be so boring if we were all English.
I bleed Sazon Goya. *wink*
And I agree that showing up at g'nads unannounced is a very, very baaaaaaad idea.
Heh, Gandalf is such a meddler. And just because he's made a mistake, doesn't mean he's going to change his plans.
I've never read Unfinished Tales! Thanks, sis!
True, chica. Very true.
Or if we were all Spanish, for that matter.
Rice and beans grow tiresome after a while. Believe me.
I haven't read them all either.... ecurbh brought that story to my attention! Interesting that there is a rest of the story!
I realize I'm getting ahead of The Hobbit, but how does this jive with Gandalf going to Saruman about the ring?
We can shout from the closest position we feel comfortable!
LOL Just the mental image is cracking me up...
I doubt we'll have the Bug fixed up in time for ShootMoot...I mean, Steve doesn't even know when we're GETTING it...but I sure would love to drive it to MO.
Picture the 'Nads...sitting around the breakfast table....when suddenly g'nad freezes in mid-coffee sip.
"Putputputput"
"What on EARTH is that?" asks Mrs Nad!
"Why, I believe that's 2J...coming up our drive!" replies G'nad!
"Yippeee! Yippeee!" shouts theBoy and theGirl. TheNewBoy looks slightly nauseated...
There's an image you don't get every day...
VEY interesting!
I ~knew~ I shoulda looked for Tolkien at the Book Barn, but didn't. :-(
shoulda pinged you too!
ROTFPIMPLMAO!!!!
And on that note, I'm heading home! HAHAHAHAHA!!!
In between The Hobbit and LoTR... didn't Gandalf argue quite a bit with Saruman about 'what to do'? Long before Saruman was known to have turned? That may be the 'hindering'
Gandalf let Saruman act weird for a hundred years or more. And Treebeard thinks he's hasty... never mind. Saruman could have been hindering plans without raising Gandalf's suspicions.
And Gandalf never actually went to Saruman about the Ring, IIRC...
Could be.
But I'm right (aren't I) that Gandalf didn't realize Saruman had sold out to Sauron until after he sent Frodo off with the ring.???
That's just the movie version?
(must read faster, must read faster)
Yeah, remember in the book Radagast sent him the message that Saruman wanted to see him?
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