ROTK:EE Discussion Thread (SPOILERS!)

Our febrile brainia | 12/16/04 | Daniel J. Phillips

[BibChr]

For those who've seen the Extended Edition of the final movie of the Lord of the Rings trilogy, "The Return of the King."

If you haven't seen it and just want to mention how superior you are to everyone else and, though you've never created anything in your life that anyone would want to see, you're sure you'd have done a better job and the pictures are total irredeemable trash... please start your own thread with that as the title.

Otherwise, this is the place to discuss what you loved, what you loathed, what you found baffling, and basically other of the usual give-and-take of those of us who've followed the production of Peter Jackson's massive, flawed and yet magnificent artistic accomplishment.

BE WARNED! TOTAL SPOILERS AHEAD!

[BibChr]

Here are my comments!

What I loved / liked (no particular order)

1. Fuller development of Frodo and Sam's journey towards Mt. Doom. It doesn't leap and start now, and you see how they changed clothes — though I still don't understand how Sam has Frodo's clothes, after fretting in the tower that Frodo can't be walking about in his skin.
2. We see the orc get away with Frodo's shirt, explaining the later Mouth of Sauron sequence. Good!
3. The Mouth of Sauron. Now it's not such a sudden leap from Aragorn on horseback rallying everyone, to suddendly saying, teary-eyed, "For Frodo." Besides, it's a crucial sequence.
4. More Eowyn I! Eowyn kicks orc-butt, and gets to come into her own more as the shield-maiden we know her to be.
5. More Eowyn II! Her and Faramir getting all bonded in the Houses of Healing... though it still is a bit sudden. Speaking of which....
6. The Houses of Healing!
7. The king (fallen statue) crowned! Lovely, very nicely-handled. Beautiful touch.
8. More Pelennor fighting in general. Just cool.
9. Merry, the mad killing machine hobbit! Okay, not that; but still, he gets to show that Boromir's instruction was not for naught!
10. Aragorn confronts Sauron! Not perfect, but cool, and a good element. Shows him coming into his own.
11. An end to Saruman. Well, given Jackson's understandable decision not to do the Scouring, it did bring closure, whatever its weaknesses.
12. Gandalf and the witch-king. Shows that Gandalf is not omnipotent, that the Nazgul are not mere bogies, not pushovers, and so heightens the tension and drama.

I reserve the right to revise and extend my remarks, but those are the highlights of what I recall. Now, to the....

Tings I hated / disliked, and disappointments (no particular order)

1. Indiana Jones and the Paths of the Dead. A creepy sequence turns dumb and derivative, as mountains of skulls cascade forth in an earthquake, and Aragorn sort of weakly pleads that he'll keep his word rather than standing on his place as Isildur's heir.
2. Aragorn sucker-jihads the Mouth of Sauron. Dumb and out of character. Not kinglike, not honorable, just an "Ooh! Another beheading! I love revenge!" moment, that works only until you think about it for a second. In the book, as I recall, much is made of the fact that this is an ambassador, not to be attacked. Should not need to be said. In a pique, Aragorn unprovokedly attacks this individual and kills him. He acts like a terrorist, not a king. Bad, bad choice. And then poof! the body disappears. Disappointing.
3. "Arwen! How's that whole dying thing going? Sorry babe, I really meant to write, honest I did!" That dumb, inexplicable "reunion" (??!) at Aragron's coronation is just as stupid, anticlimactic, and baffling as ever. And uncharacteristically I heard nothing in the cast or writers'/director's comments clarifying what a dumb thing that is, or even what it meant. Why does she look abashed? Why is Elrond okay with his daughter marrying a guy who clearly completely forgot about her? Dumb, dumb, dumb.
4. Nothing explains Sam leaving Frodo, still.
5. Drinking match. Cute, but dumb. Use the time for something else.
6. Still, Denethor's use of (and undoing because of) the Palantir is absent. He's just mad-dog nuts. Too bad. He and Faramir were roughly handled, for no good reason.
7. "Smeagol lied!" No, not to his mind he didn't. This is dumb, too. Smeagol had convinced himself that he would become the master of the ring, and that he must protect the ring. He didn't think he lied. Further, he felt betrayed by Frodo. This is just a dumb touch.
8. No Ioreth, no "hands of the healer," no Kingsfoil... just putting some water on Eowyn's head made everything better? Hmm....

Well, I probably forgot something important, but am hurried, so here we go.

Dan
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[BibChr]

The Usual Suspects, if you would, please.

Thanks,
Dan

[ecurbh]

If you haven't gotten your Extended Edition DVD yet, order them here:
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[HairOfTheDog]

I agree with all your likes.... and your number 1 dislike!

But don't be alarmed... Your criticism of offing the Mouth of Sauron has restored my faith in our ability to not agree too much!

[Lil'freeper]

HUZZAH! Excellent! Thanks for the thread!!

[HairOfTheDog]

"Arwen! How's that whole dying thing going? Sorry babe, I really meant to write, honest I did!" That dumb, inexplicable "reunion" (??!) at Aragron's coronation is just as stupid, anticlimactic, and baffling as ever. And uncharacteristically I heard nothing in the cast or writers'/director's comments clarifying what a dumb thing that is, or even what it meant. Why does she look abashed? Why is Elrond okay with his daughter marrying a guy who clearly completely forgot about her? Dumb, dumb, dumb.

What what what?

[ecurbh]

Indiana Jones and the Paths of the Dead.

That is the one that grates on me the most. Stupid and corny, and it just doesn't seem to fit in Middle Earth.

The Mouth of Sauron, though, is one seriesly creepy dude! Yikes.

[HairOfTheDog]

Still, Denethor's use of (and undoing because of) the Palantir is absent. He's just mad-dog nuts. Too bad. He and Faramir were roughly handled, for no good reason.

You just missed it... Denethor to Gandalf: "Do you think the eyes of the white tower are blind?.... Gandalf knows what he's referring to there.

[ItsOurTimeNow]

""Arwen! How's that whole dying thing going? Sorry babe, I really meant to write, honest I did!" That dumb, inexplicable "reunion" (??!) at Aragron's coronation is just as stupid, anticlimactic, and baffling as ever. And uncharacteristically I heard nothing in the cast or writers'/director's comments clarifying what a dumb thing that is, or even what it meant. Why does she look abashed? Why is Elrond okay with his daughter marrying a guy who clearly completely forgot about her? Dumb, dumb, dumb."

I still don't understand all of that. Just wierd and out of place for the movie.

One added like - Eomer's breakdown on the field when he sees his sister is hurt. Got a little emotional there, I did.

[Darksheare]

Haven't seen it yet.
But thanks for the prep on it!

[Lil'freeper]

One added like - Eomer's breakdown on the field when he sees his sister is hurt. Got a little emotional there, I did.

Got me, too. It was well done.

[Alouette]

I started watching the EE ROTK last night.

Still disappointed that Peter Jackson completely wrote out "The Scouring of the Shire" and moved Grima's assassination of Saruman to Orthanc.

The whole point of "The Scouring of the Shire" chapter in the book was to show that you can't ever go away and expect everything to be exactly the same when you get back.

I can never picture Saruman without thinking of the terrorist in the wheelchair.

[Xenalyte]

Am gonna buy this for Xena's Guy, and will be viewing it with our buds Bacon Man and Hap in our home theatre on Christmas Eve. Woohoo!

[ecurbh]

[ItsOurTimeNow]

Almost forgot - another dislike.

That "look" shared between Pippin and Gandalf at the Edoras party. Stops mid-song to share a "what the heck is going on I'm so sad and worried" look?

[MBombardier]

ping

[Alouette]

[HairOfTheDog]

No Ioreth, no "hands of the healer," no Kingsfoil... just putting some water on Eowyn's head made everything better? Hmm....

I thought Houses of the Healing was rushed, but all of us would have stayed all day. So they include a montage of images... no real information about how long they were there, or the extent of their injuries... but still... You don't have to exclude what you know and consider only what you are told outright.

[ican'tbelieveit]

"6. Still, Denethor's use of (and undoing because of) the Palantir is absent. He's just mad-dog nuts. Too bad. He and Faramir were roughly handled, for no good reason."

I still dislike how they portray Denethor as insanely mad. I found him to have some honor, though misguided, in the book.

[DoctorMichael]

Thanks! I haven't seen the Extended Version yet but the info was interesting nonetheless.

I am one of those who has read LOTR at least 15 times over the years and having viewed the previously released screen version 4 times, I tend to agree with your assessments as to 1) what was lacking and absent in the original and 2) out of place in this new Ext-DVD's embellishment.

Bump!