Posted on 11/17/2004 10:27:10 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
AMD Athlon 64 3000+ scrutinised, compared
INQUIRER Review of Reviews
: Thursday 22 January 2004, 12:03
Online reviews read, analysed
and condensed
Is this already the best chip of 2004?
The AMD Athlon 64 3000+ will probably be remembered by many as its first foray into the 64-bit world of computing and considered by some as the best not-so-expensive-but-better-than-entry-level chip from the Sunnyvale company for a long time. AMD chose to launch the 3000+ CPU in a most subtle way after the 3200+ was introduced about 100 days earlier, so silent that not even a press release was issued for the occasion; more intriguingly, only two documents on the whole AMD website even mentions the model 3000+.
But it was definitely not a paper launch. For once, AMD has decided to move swiftly, leaving long-time competitor Intel apparently gasping for air. Stocks in US and in UK are in good shape and the number of rigs sporting the new wonderchip is on the rise. Though from a PR point of view, the launch of the Athlon 64 3000+ is not far from being a failure, for the geekers and enthusiasts, it is a God-gifted CPU.
The Athlon64 3000+ runs at 2Ghz, same as the Athlon64 3200+ but with only half the cache (512Kb vs 1Mb). The rumour that AMD has simply stuck a Model Number on those Athlon64 3200+ which have a partly defective/disabled L2 cache fits nicely with the model numbers it used since its previous Athlon XP range. The resemblance of these two siblings continues in the benchmarks where the lack of the 512Kb cache proved to be almost a non-issue.
Moreover, the Athlon64 3200+ is probably not the Newcastle version that everyone was waiting for. A 512Kb cache difference would probably save around 45mm2 out of 193mm2 (roughly 30 millions transistors), about 25% of the surface area which might grossly translate in a 25% price difference. Somehow, AMD must have believed that etching a new 512Kb CPU might prove more difficult than disabling or using “faulty” 512Kb CPUs.
Performance and overclockability
The Athlon 64 3000+ offers 90 to 95% of an Athlon 64 3200+ at around 35% discount. It still carries a premium compared to the Athlon XP series but do compare very favourably with Intel Pentium 4 range on most benchmarks (except on optimised ones – HT enabled). The issue of optimization will probably carry its weight. Hyperthreading does provide with some serious advantages to the higher Pentium 4 and software to take advantage of this IS already available as we see in the tests.
As for overclockability, the Athlon 64 3000+ proves to be a poor overclocker with an average of 10% gain. This can be partly explained by the “newness” of motherboards present on the market but also perhaps by something that lies within the CPU itself. I’ll leave that bit to the experts.
The Microsoft Excel File here contains compiled data from several dozens benchmarking software from 9 different hardware websites. You will be able to do whatever manipulation you want and draw whatever chart you want. Why nine (now 10) reviews? As at time of writing, this appears to represent the total number of reviews on the whole internet on the AMD Athlon 64 3000+. If you know of more, please email me.
Finally, a word of caution. I have noticed that benchmarks for similar software packages vary widely across the 9 reviews examined. Downloading the packages and performing the benchmarks might prove to be a better idea.
In the marketplace
At the time of writing, the cheapest Athlon 64 3000+ costs only $205 (http://www.shopping.com/xPC-AMD_Processor_1_x_AMD_Athlon_64_3000_2_GHz_L2_512_KB) which compares overwhelmingly well with Intel's Pentium 4 2.8Ghz at $211, let alone the 3.0Ghz version. More interestingly is the swiftness with which motherboard manufacturers have jumped on to the socket 754 bandwagon. This contrasts starkly with the SlotA k7/Athlon mobo “shortage” in August 1999. About 103 types of motherboards from 27 manufacturers are currently available for a platform launched only 3 months ago! And they don’t come that much expensive. Gigabyte GA-k8vt800 is available in the UK for a tad under £64 inc VAT while the ECS 755a sports a more sexy $ 84 price tag and with both featuring advanced features like SATA-Raid and 6-Channel Audio.
By having the FX51+ and the 3200+ launched before the 3000+, AMD has already placed a price benchmark where the logic would be that everything that comes below the 3200+ price would be good value for the money.
Bear in mind that big money is made mainly in the lower and in the middle-level markets. By selling a significant number of 64-bit processors, AMD would be able to (1) increase its ASP and therefore get more profit (2) get more CPU out there and convince software developers that there is a market out there (3) induce in and condition customers to the fact that 64-bit is really better than 32-bit.
Conclusion
The AMD Athlon 3000+ is the best value-for-money CPU around, period. The 3200+ might prove to be slightly more performing but adds around 25% to the cost of the 3000+. Intel lovers may debate it but the mere fact that the AMD’s 64 bit technology is still in its infancy and hasn’t fired on all its cylinders coupled with the impending launch of an X86-64 friendly 64 bit version of Windows XP make us all salivate. No one really knows the real impact that it might have performance-wise but the thought of having a virtual processor upgrade by a simple software replacement (Linux/Windows) will certainly send some disturbing signal to Intel.
It is now Intel’s turn to play: by combining dual-core Prescotts with HT on a single die, they could effectively bring forward a virtual quad processor in one machine, will they dare to do so? Also will they introduce souped-up Celerons which will match today’s Pentium 4 performance? Will they bring in Yamhill and throw 10 years of Merced investment through the window? Will Prescott be finally take off and being P4EE to a premature but welcome retirement?
As for the Newcastle version of the Athlon 64 with 130nm SOI technology and probably only 512Kb L2 cache, I sincerely believe that it will not appear this quarter. We might even not see it if AMD decides to switch to a 90nm SOI version (Winchester??) with 512Kb L2 and a dual channel memory controller thereby bypassing it. For now, the Athlon XP in its nice socket A nicely outguns Intel finest Celerons at a fraction of the price but that’s another story. µ
Resources
Windows Server 2003 for 64-Bit Extended Systems Beta Customer Preview Program
I want my FX-55
I'm a huge AMD fan! I've been building, supporting, programming and using PC's since about 1989, and AMD processors are terrific. They are currently, and have been for a while, the best "bang for the buck."
I bought my second AMD64 3000+ for $160 US dollars, got Windows XP Pro running there with an Lanparty board and ATI AIW 9600 .... runs pretty good.
Am browsing the internat on a separate machine with my first AMD64 3000+ , Gigabyte board and 3 SCSI Atlas Drives, 2 18 Gig and 1 36 Gig , running Fedora Linux Core 2, and the processor idles most of the time.... With the SCSI drives it is very very responsive.... Love the AMD chips...
Boy am I glad to find you guys. I'm thinking of building or having built a new computer and one person is pushing for Intel over AMD because they say the AMD's are "overclocked" and they run too hot.
I like the idea of a 64 bit. I mostly want a business system for trading stocks and currency at home with my broadband connection. I want to use 2 monitors. Anybody have suggestions for video cards and systems for dual monitors?
I'm a little confused about the difference between the, what is it, the 754 pin vs the 939 or 940 pin AMD 64's. I read the 939 pin model is supposed to be the future path. Is that true or relevant right now?
HP/Compaq is also selling a few models with AMD 64 3400's and I was thinking about buying a stock model rather than building a system. It seems almost as cheap or cheaper, but I don't know about the upgradabilty of "store bought" systems for RAM and addon cards etc. Whadda ya think? I want to use XP Pro, but the HP's are coming with MS XP "Media edition" whatever that is.
Thoughts, opinon's, rants always appreciated.
The 1700+ means that it is really a 1500 that is supposed to be equivalent to an Intel 1700. Yeah, just like the 14 oz cans of coffee really made the same as a pound of the old stuff.
The socket 939 parts are the future of the line. AMD has demonstrated, for example, that their upcoming dual-core parts will drop right in to an existing 939 motherboard and, with a BIOS update, work just fine. A 4-way motherboard can instantly become an 8-way. Very cool.
Intel processors are certainly good too, though they only take the trophy on a few benchmarks right now. Here are a few of the big difference between AMD and Intel right now:
So, currently Intel is on a downward slope and AMD is on an upward one. Nobody has any illusions that AMD will put Intel out of business, but the competition is a good thing. AMD forces Intel to be better, and vice-versa. Right now, AMD is a better deal.
The HP/Compaq machines should be fine. OEMs are, indeed, getting to be so competitive that systems often cost as little as the parts would if you were to build your own. As far as I know, everyone else but Dell are using industry standard components in their machines, so upgradeability should be good too.
As far as dual monitor graphics cards, Matrox seems to have the most history there. However, there are lots of nVidia-based cards with dual monitor support too. For more than two, look at Appian.
Intel is nowhere near as powerful or reliable as AMD. Your friend sounds biased toward Intel for some reason or another. Bottom line--AMD has been king o' the hill for a while now with no end to their reign in sight. If you don't believe me, just check out the Anandtech website in the article. They do run a little hot, but if you have a decent case with a few 80mm fans running, then you'll be fine.
The Athlon64 3000+ is a terrific processor. I built my ex-roommate a high-end gaming rig using that gem for the workhorse. It runs REAL fast...I gotta get one myself now...
As for 939 vs. 940, once again, check out Anandtech; they fully recommend 939, saying it will be the next standard. There are already many boards out there with it, but I would recommend waiting until the nForce4 boards are out, if you are indeed building an AMD rig.
As far as XP Media Center, it's only useful if you're building a HTPC (home theater personal computer). Unless you watch TV on your computer, you won't find much use for it. For all standard computer operations, XP Pro is by far the winner.
I have cases that have temperature probes (attached to the sides of the heat sinks.) , and for what I am doing they very rarely get above 35 C.... usually right around 30C.
The motherboards seem to vary all over the lot on the temperature that the BIOS reports....
Thanks. That's interesting to know. I am overdue for an upgrade, and the temperature problem was my only complaint.
DFI "LANPARTY UT nF3 250Gb" NVIDIA nForce3 250GB Chipset Motherboard For AMD Socket 754 CPU -RETAIL
Specifications:
Supported CPU: AMD Athlon 64 processor
Chipset: NVIDIA nForce3 250Gb
RAM: 3x DIMM Supports DDR266/333/400 Max 3GB
Slots: 1x AGP 8X/4X, 5x PCI
System Bus is 1600MT/s Hypertransport interface.....
FSB with overclocking can go well above standard 200MB, .
This is the board that a lot of overclocking enthusiast were waiting for and got all excited about. Designed by a fellow that left ABIT and went to DFI...
I figured if the board could handle the overvoltages that the overclockers use to get maximum performance it might likely be a pretty dependable board,,, working great so far. Use the Audio on the board with my AIW for recording off cable and does fine, previous soundcard , Hercules and board didn't work good at all. I recommend this case for some serious capacity:
Cooler Master CM Stacker Full-Tower CASE, Model "STC-T01-UW" -RETAIL
Model# STC-T01-UW
| Item # N82E16811119042 |
Specifications: Case Type: Extended ATX Color: Grey with Black trim Material: Aluminum Bezel, SECC Chassis Drive Bays: 5.25" x 7/0, 3.5" x 1/3 (external/internal) Expansion Slots: 7 Front Ports: 6 x USB2.0, 1 x IEEE1934 firewire, 2 x Audio Power Supply: N/A Cooling System: 1 x 80mm, 2 x 120mm fan Motherboard Compatibility: EXTEND ATX (12" x 13") ; BTX Dimensions: 23" x 9" x 21.1" (DxWxH)
|
Ports: 2x PS/2, 1x COM, 1x LPT, 8x USB2.0(Rear 4), 1xRJ45, 2x S/PDIF In/Out, Audio Ports
IDE: 2x ATA 133 up to 4 Devices
SATA/RAID: 2x SATA RAID with NVIDIA RAID 0,1,0+1,JBOD, 2x SATA by Marvell SATA PHY
Onboard Audio: Realtek ALC850(8-Ch)
Onboard LAN: Marvell 88E1111 GbE PHY
Form Factor: ATX
See this:
Price is down nicely...
Saw a note on the Inquirer that AIW cards are about to be announced on the newest ATI chips the X800 and X700 before year end....
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Taipei, Taiwan, November 17 2004, - VIA Technologies, Inc, a leading innovator and developer of silicon chip technologies and PC platform solutions, today announced broad industry support for VIA K8T890 Series chipsets from the world’s leading motherboard manufacturers and system integrators, helping drive the adoption of high-speed PCI Express™ architecture on the 32- and 64-bit compatible AMD64 processor platform.
At a series of global press days, VIA, AMD and key industry partners will showcase an array of cutting edge gaming PCs and multimedia devices featuring the advanced architecture of VIA K8T890 Series chipsets and the unparalleled processing power of AMD64 processors. VIA industry partners demonstrating products include ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, ABIT, Soltek, Albatron and Shuttle, as well leading system integrators such as Fujitsu Siemens.
VIA will also unveil the forthcoming K8T890 Pro chipset with VIA DualGFX Express, a solution which makes dual graphics card configurations more viable for a wider market. The K8T890 Pro chipset will be demonstrated in a high performance workstation with dual graphics cards and support for up to four monitors, enabling enhanced multitasking without compromising system performance.
“The broad array of VIA K8T890 Series chipset powered products on show from our partners clearly demonstrates that PCI Express has well and truly arrived on the AMD64 platform,” commented Chewei Lin, Vice President of Product Marketing, VIA Technologies Inc. “VIA remains committed to driving the growth of 64-bit computing on the AMD64 platform, and will continue to introduce innovative new technologies, as we have done with the advanced VIA Flex Express Architecture and features such as VIA DualGFX Express.”
“We have been working closely with VIA to bring PCI Express connectivity to the AMD64 platform,” said Daryl Sartain, director, Desktop Business Segment, AMD’s Microprocessor Business Unit, CPG. “Along with VIA, we are excited to show off the latest complements to the AMD Athlon™ 64 processor, which offers our customers an incredibly powerful platform for extreme performance.”
“The advanced Flex Express Architecture of VIA K8T890 Series chipsets, combined with ASUS’ unique AI Proactive features and user-centric designs, creates the best platform to drive the adoption of PCI Express on the AMD64 platform,” commented by Joy Hsieh, Associate Vice President of ASUS Motherboard Business Dept.. “The VIA K8T890 chipset powered ASUS A8V-E Deluxe motherboard works seamlessly with the latest PCI Express graphics cards and peripherals to enable a new generation of leading performance PCs that deliver an unparalleled 3D gaming and multimedia experience”.
VIA K8T890 Series press events will be taking place in the following cities during November and December 2004: Munich, Paris, London, Moscow, Milan, Beijing, Mumbai and Delhi.
About VIA K8T890 Series Chipsets
Optimized for a complete range of AMD Athlon 64 FX, AMD Athlon 64, AMD Sempron™, and AMD Opteron™ processors, VIA K8T890 Series chipsets feature the unique VIA Flex Express Architecture to allow the industry’s most flexible implementations of PCI Express devices. Multiple device configurations can be implemented, with support for up to five PCI Express devices directly into the chipset North Bridge and a total of 20 PCI Express lanes for a combined bandwidth of 5GB/s.
VIA K8T890 Series chipsets include support for the latest PCI Express x16 graphics cards, and up to four PCI Express x1 connections to high speed PCI Express peripherals, such as Gigabit Ethernet and bandwidth hungry HDTV tuner cards. The VIA K8T890 Pro chipset features VIA DualGFX Express, a solution that stands ready to support all dual graphics card industry standards. VIA DualGFX Express can provide enhanced single application performance with supporting graphics cards and enhanced multi-monitor support for power multitasking without tying up vital system bandwidth.
VIA K8T890 Series chipsets also feature an asynchronous bus architecture, providing improved system optimization options to enable power users to squeeze the very most out of their systems.
In combination with the market-leading VIA VT8237 South Bridge and a broad array of VIA companion chips, the VIA K8T890 chipset provides the most comprehensive range of storage, multimedia and connectivity features available for the AMD64 processor platform today, including native Serial ATA and V-RAID, 6-channel or 8-channel VIA Vinyl audio, USB2.0, and 1394.
VIA K8T890 Series chipsets are shipping to motherboard manufacturers and system integrators now, with first products expected to available in November 2004. For further information about VIA K8T890 Series chipsets please visit the VIA website here
VIA K8T890 - Bringing PCI Express to the AMD64 Platform,/a>
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Ports: 2x PS/2, 1x COM, 1x LPT, 8x USB2.0(Rear 4), 1xRJ45, 2x S/PDIF In/Out, Audio Ports