Posted on 11/10/2004 8:49:16 PM PST by RepublitarianRoger
OK, I understand the reasoning behind the fact that we wanted to get all of the innocents out of Fallujah first, before the bombs started dropping. But the problem is that the bad guys blend in with the population. It's not like they're wearing military gear. By giving them plenty of time to leave before "sealing off the city," a bunch of insurgents might have slipped through our fingers. It seems to me that in a situation such as this, the element of total surprise is crucial, and collateral damage (OK, innocents dead, if you don't like euphemisms) will be an unpleasant but necessary rule of engagement. I will be surprised if Zarqawi is anywhere near Fallujah anymore. It's difficult -- you want the trust of the Iraqi people, that is true -- but in order to get the bad guys, it just seems to me that you'll be forced to just go in unannounced and surprise the hell out of everybody. Am I wrong?
They are killing a lot of them, that is the goal. They are being watched from the sky 24/7. I am sure the commanders on the ground know a lot more than we do.
You post article summary in the top box and your own comments in the bottom box.
Since Nov 3, 2004
Moby? Is that you?
Lots of insurgents are being killed, the city is being taken, and the insurgents that slipped out will not have a comparable haven to move into elsewhere..
First, some did leave, but anyone going out by road was checked. At gunpoint. Those going out across the fields were check-mated.
So fewer got away than the MSM leads you to believe. Yes, some did, - hiding under the burka.
But lots and lots are taking dirt naps right now.
As on Captain mentioned on Fox this morning: When you put a tank mani-gun H.E. round through a window from which you were taking fire, there's really not enough left to determine if they got killed or got away.
The source isn't AP as you suggested. It's your vain brain and should be labeled as such.
Yes. leave the Counter Insurgency to the experts. The sort of collective responsiblity the hard core right Radio ranters like Savage advocate is counter productive. Look how well it work for the Nzais during WW2.
"They blend in with the population"
Kind of hard to do that carrying an AK-47 or an RPG. So what if they left? They have been driven out of their sancuaries and we are capturing tons of equipment. They are even less effective on the run.
Kind of curious why a certain class of Freeper always insists on seeing defeat in the midst of massive victory?
Free Milosevic!
I don't think that there was way to avoid the usual BS negotiations which once again took place between the Iraqis and insurgents before this battle began to try and get the insurgents to turn in their weapons. It was once again nothing more than a stalling tactic on the part of the bad guys to slip away.
But at least this time we did get to go in and waste at least 500 of them. And we will hold the city at least for a while. So this is progress over earlier attempts to pacify Fallujah. The fact that Allawi did give the order for action is also a very important development. And hopefully the insurgents will now have a better idea of just what they are up against vs. the USMC which should make them think twice about taking real warriors on again.
Unfortunately the lighting raid and swift counterattack is what has Israel in such hot water in much of the world community and losing international support. Any sort of lighting raid that disregarded civilian casualties would paint the US with the same brush, giving even more propaganda to the enemy, tying is straight in with Israel in not only alliance, but tactics.
In this war you have to think outside the box of "kill enough of 'em to make 'em quit". We're on a multi-front war, and one is fighting the propaganda of the enemy. Give the enemy this kind of propaganda and you'll just replace anyone you kill with a new terrorist. To win, you have to not only kill the enemy, but deny them the propaganda to recruit. Certainly they will propagandize as much as possible, but propaganda holds much more weight when backed by truth than by supposition.
Thanks for the replies. I think I agree with mld0806's
and Williams' comments the most. It would be pretty tough to prepare for such an attack and catch them "by surprise." You can't really hide that kind of preparation. That makes sense. We're probably doing the best job we could do there. Now I'd love to see Zarqawi beheaded by a well-placed surgical strike.
Oh, and yes I posted my own comments in the wrong place, I guess. Sorry, still getting used to the somewhat convoluted and ambiguous (compared to other boards) posting fields here.
"Now I'd love to see Zarqawi beheaded by a well-placed surgical strike."
I am sure at the first enemy recon findings that our units where surrounding the city, he scooted out under a buruka,
and now is slamming down lamb chops in some plush hotel in Syria. For me it is hard to believe he would ever put him selve in harms way. Of course he could be anywhere in Iraq at a safe house, underground complex etc..
Like Laden, we will not know he is dead until we see his dead body. And this at best is probably not going to happen.
True. I know my comment was just wishful thinking.
"True. I know my comment was just wishful thinking."
I understand. It would be so "uplifting" to many Iraqis if they could hear that such an evil man was killed.
Sometimes I think a lot of us forget to realize that many of the people of Iraq really just want peace and security for them and their children. So maybe some of them never learned to read or write. Perhaps all they know is some basic skills learned from generation to generation.....say how to build a little house out of cattle dong.
That doesn't mean that they are evil or stupid. Saddam was the worst thing that ever happened to them next to being born into a society of Islam, which rules over their lives.
With a free from tyranny Iraqi government wich emphasizes personal liberties etc., they will look back in ten years and thank their moon (sin) god allah for the US and Britain having the balls to come in and free them.
Free to sell their vast oil reserves to the world and have their standard of living and living conditions improved 95%.
George W. Bush will be remembered by them as a good man that had the balls to free them from 1400 years of oppression.
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