Posted on 11/01/2004 11:32:18 AM PST by Jenya
I'm a loyal and fierce Massachusetts Republican. I'm praying for our President's re-election.
Given where I live, it stands to reason that I'm surrounded by liberals. My family, my husband's family and most of our friends are liberals and most of them hate Bush. My husband and I don't discuss politics with them because we discovered from past experience that you just can't win with them.
My brother called me last night. I love him dearly, but it was strained on both ends. So strained that he decided to address the elephant in the room in a non-confrontatial way. Finally, he said to me, "I know we don't agree on this election, but they're expecting a huge voter turnout." I told him that Kerry's carrying Mass anyway, so our votes don't count. (I'm still voting).
We hung up shortly after that uncomfortable exchange. We exchanged I love you's as we always do. Yet, and I'm reluctant to admit this, I found myself resenting him.
Is anyone else in this predicament, where your loved ones are liberal?
I drive a sports car, but it's a 4 cylinder. This guy drives a SUV. I needle him mercilessly about how he's killing the planet. I pepper my words with Lefty phrases like "Think Globally, Act Locally". Any self-induldenge, no matter how well earned is scorned.
"Do you have any idea how many homeless people could be fed with with what you've wasted on that deck!
"The CEO should be shot for crimes against the masses and his wealth absorbed for the good of the state, etc.
"Greedy doctors should be forced to treat people free of charge or imprisoned.
It goes on and on. I push a constant harder line. Going right to Marx often. I ram his own politics down his throat. With a smile and nicely, of course!
It's my job. ;)
A HEARTY WELCOME INTO THE FREE REPUBLIC FAMILY! Your circle of Republican friends just expanded exponentially.
I am closer to many of my fellow FReepers than I am to any of my neighbors and several of my relatives. Welcome aboard!
I'm in the same boat big time. My entire family lives in and around Boston (Somerville, Charlestown, Dorchester, Weymouth, Woburn...Big Irish family on both sides). My parents are conservatives, but my brother, his wife, all my aunts and uncles...all heavy democrats. We just don't talk politics that much. Although I must say I can have a rational conversation with all of them. We respect each other's views. I can't say there's ever been any real vitriol, especially between my brother and I. Deep down I can't figure it out though. He's a Marine and an avid Bush detractor. Most of it stems from Bush's lack of a solid miliatry background (even rabid freepers would have to admit there's much truth in that)But hey, he's my brother and I love him. Same goes with my uncles (a couple of Harvard and Columbia grads...too smart for their own good!) At least we all agree on the Sox...
Jenya: Boy do I feel your pain! I asked my mom why she is voting for John Kerry and she said because the democratic party picked him. I asked a few other questions about him to test her knowledge about him. Well needless to say she knew nothing about the man.
My grandmother likes to rant about how she is a democrat and proud of it.
On my last visit to my sister’s house, my brother in law had a screen saver picture on his pc with John Kerry and John Lennon from the late 60's or early 70's.
My sister sent me that resume of George bush that was posted on the internet and I responded to all the accusations with the facts and could not help inserting an a$$clown award jpg I found right here on FR.
When I do engage in conversations with them on issues, I present the facts they tend to state feelings. I do think I hold my ground without getting any one upset though.
Thank you so much for the warm welcome. I hope you're right -- I could use a bigger circle of Republican friends!
Anyone else here who works in a sort of "granola" profession or in the arts? Talk about Michael Moore paradise. It's like being closeted. I'll never forget the day that my writing partner tried to push me into voting for Clark in the primaries...that was the day I became short one writing partner.
I guess I'm lucky. My dad watches FNC all day long.
Funny thing is, I am just like him in so many ways, we just disagree politically. Both very passionate about what we believe in.
Good luck. I also think it's natural to feel resentful towards someone who supports something you think will be harmful to yourself and your way of life. OTOH, don't let a loser like John Kerry come between you and your brother...he's not worth it.
My baby brother is a lib, and honestly, the only one I know that walks the walk--
He spent 10 years in a commune, is totally vegan and he rides a bike everywhere. He has a house in which he rents out rooms, but sleeps out back in a small shed. He is very active causes he believes in and that is is whole life. We tease him about being a closet capitalist because between the house and the odd jobs, he makes a great living.
He lives off of less than $400 a month, and makes money when he needs it by being an amazing craftsman. My house wouldn't be finished if it wasn't for him. It was a great act of love (twice in fact) when he came down to work on it with me. Because it stood for everything he hates.
Anyhow, in someways he is a wackaloon. But the family motto is "We are all just various degrees of high functioning crazy people." Seriously, sometimes I worry about him because he is so full of doom and gloom about the world and the future.
But when we are together, we pretty much avoid talking politics and just enjoy eachothers company.
My grandmother (91) is a raging Democrat, much to the chagrin of many in our family. She thinks Kerry and Edwards are the most charismatic and handsome men to ever run for president. the other day they showed seniors a movie at the Dem headquarters where she lives and she called my mom crying because she was so scared that Bush would take away her SS and Medicare. Through tears, she begged my mom (who volunteers for Bush and the Republicans) not to vote for Bush again because he will just destroy the world. The conversation ended on an ugly note when she told my mom that she couldn't believe she had raised two such stupid daughters that turned into republicans. She knows I am a Repulican, too, but never brings the subject up with me. Luckily, she lives in Texas, so her vote won't help Kerry!
"Morality (the right or wrong decisions one makes or avoids as to what if good for life) is more significant than blood."
Jesus said not only was "morality" more significant but he told us that those who were truly our brothers, sisters, mothers etc were those who were of like mind and spirit and not those related by blood.
Mat 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, [his] mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Mat 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Mat 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Mat 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
My husband is a liberal Massachusetts Democrat and I think all of his siblings are too. We just don't talk about politics. Life goes on. Civilized people can agree to disagree. We survived 8 years of Bill Clinton, they have survived four years of George Bush. I think it is good to have people of all stripes in your family and circle of friends. We are becoming a polarized country, and only hanging out with people who think the same way makes it worse.
I try to still pray for them however.
I was raised up north in a liberal union town so most of my family are union democrats.
I've got one brother who is perverse and mindlessly liberal. I talk to him about once every four or five years when I can't avoid it any longer. He seems to be hungry for our attention but again I can't bring myself to be around someone who is a danger to me, and moreso to my children. (He lives in Texas so his vote doesn't hurt us)
I have a sister who lives way up north who is a JOhn KErry supporter (somewhat like an athletic supporter but smells worse). She won't discuss politics with me at all. She claims that she has reasons for hating President Bush but refuses to share those reasons. It's really a shame becaus eother than that she's a nice person and fun to be around. I see her about once a year and only under strictly guarded conversational circumstances. (she's in rural Wisconsin so she might be cancelled out, I don't know) Then I have a sister who works for a living. She is mostly non-political but I think she's a closet republican. (Suburb of Milwaukee)
Mom is non-political democrat. dad was a union steward for years. He's drank so much koolaid that he's brain dead. None of my family will really discuss politics as they don't like being buried by an avalanche of FACTs proving that they are wrong. I got saved, married a beautiful Christian woman (who's grown more beautiful and more conservative each year), moved down here to Indiana, and now move in a very Christian (hence conservative) circle of friends and acquaintances. Most of the people at work are Christian and conservative also. So I don't really have much need to go back up north. I do have a nephew (who is also a Christian) up north who is in your same situation. Besides his wife and his church family he's all alone. He'll call down here when he needs to talk to someone sane.
I figure that God will send someone to reach my family as they refuse to listen to me. I just keep praying for them and try to be nice when I see them or have to be around my brother.
We've got room for ya in TEXAS!
My first comments pointed to my personal self interest, since I thought "what parent wouldn't want to vote for policies that would benefit their own kid?" I told them Kerry wants to raise taxes, and I don't buy his false promise that he's only going to raise taxes on those making over 200k. In response to that, my parents said "well, you make a lot more than we do -- you can afford to pay higher taxes"! Then I said Kerry has no plan to fix Social Security, and it will be bankrupt by the time I retire at its current rate. To which they said "Bush is going to cut Social Security", to which I responded that's just DNC propaganda and completely false. I said the plan is to do a partial privatization, to which my parents responded there is no way to privatize without cutting benefits to existing retirees. I said that's not true -- the system currently runs at a net profit, and privatization would be gradually phased in only for younger taxpayers without affecting current promised benefits, but it's quite difficult to argue intelligent conservative viewpoints versus Democrat scare tactics. Finally, I said it was a matter of pay now or pay later, and it's just going to be a lot more expensive the longer we wait. That didn't bother them though -- they seem content to know that Social Security will last long enough for them (they are currently in their early 60's). I gave up, saying that Kerry's Social Security plan is "more of the same", keeping your head in the sand as long as possible.
My parent's economic counterpoint was Bush's deficits. I argued that Kerry's proposals would increase spending even more dramatically, and his proposed tax increases wouldn't be enough to cover it. They agreed that Kerry would also increase spending, but that it was irresponsible for Bush to cut taxes. But I also agreed that Bush's domestic spending record has been abysmal, and I'm hoping he becomes more conservative in his second term.
Next I moved on to the War on Terror. My parents brought up the standard "no WMD" line -- to which I responded that I think the weapons were moved (and gave lots of evidence to support that point), and it was worthwhile taking out Saddam in any case (giving more evidence of his brutal history). I pointed out that brutal regimes ONLY understand the threat of force, and taking out Saddam convinced Libya to abandon their WMD program, and if Bush gets reelected he will have much more bargaining power with Iran than Kerry. That shut my parents up on the WMD issue. I told them I believed Osama was either dead, incapacitated, or hiding in a hole cut off from the world (although this was before the recent video showed up--DOH). That pretty much settled that issue -- they couldn't debate me on the facts, except to say that Kerry would "stay the course" in Iraq (which I told them I doubted--he has a 30-year record suggesting otherwise). I also pointed out Kerry's disastrous foreign policy ideas (nukes for Iran and "global test").
I went to character next -- pointing out Kerry's flip-flops and lying. My parents both agreed that Kerry was an extremely poor candidate, and wish they had someone better to vote for, but they were voting Democrat anyway. So no traction there.
Next, my parents brought up abortion--this is apparently their real hot-button issue. I've never heard my parents say anything so forcefully, they were literally yelling at me -- "DO YOU WANT ABORTIONS TO BE ILLEGAL? DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE TO GET COAT-HANGER ABORTIONS IN BACK ALLEYS?". They brought up how Bush could end up appointing up to 4 justices in his second term, and that they would likely be pro-Life. I'm pro-choice myself (does that make me a bad conservative?), the best I could come up with was that Roe v. Wade was a case of illegal judicial activism and should be overturned anyway, regardless of your stand on abortion. Besides, the right to abortion isn't going to matter much if Iran gets nukes.
That was pretty much it -- my cell phone got cut off, I don't know where it would have went if that hadn't happened. I sent an email to my mom about Iran nukes, and she said that she would definitely consider that issue when voting. Although they are in a location where they do not need to worry about nuclear terror (a town of less than 2000 in the middle of Missouri is not a likely target, whereas I live in L.A.).
My parents do have some conservative viewpoints. My dad is against affirmative action, and believes in medical liability reform (of course he doesn't mind voting in a trial lawyer for VP). My dad also believes in individual responsibility, and parental responsibility for kids versus government. My mom was a stay-at-home mom and is a Christian. I don't know why they are so liberal, but I think it may have to do with growing up during the Vietnam War (my dad got a student deferment, and he told me he would have crippled himself by slamming his car door on his leg to avoid serving).
I've given up on any future attempts to bring up politics, my parents are apparently long set in their thinking, although I may send the occasional political column their way. Hopefully Missouri is not within 4 votes at the end! I may be able to convince my younger sister at some point, my wife convinced her younger brother to vote for Bush, woohoo!
> Next, my parents brought up abortion--this is apparently their real hot-button issue. I've never heard my parents say anything so forcefully, they were literally yelling at me -- "DO YOU WANT ABORTIONS TO BE ILLEGAL? DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE TO GET COAT-HANGER ABORTIONS IN BACK ALLEYS?". They brought up how Bush could end up appointing up to 4 justices in his second term, and that they would likely be pro-Life.
Watch a video of a late term abortion. I was pro-choice until I saw that. I almost vomited. I don't know if I could stomach seeing a partial birth abortion. All I could think while I was watching it was "That's murder!"
If you can see what I saw and say you're still "Pro Choice" with all that means, then you're more of a cold person than I!
Early term stuff is one thing. Zygotes and all. But viability is (through science) is getting shorter into the term all the time. Nearly all abortions are medically unnecessary with "health of the woman" masquarading as the reason for it. They mean "mental health", in that "the pregency upsets the mother" and therefore is a legitimate candidate for abortion. Bull.
The number of childless couples seeking to adopt FAR outnumbers unwanted babies. The glut of kids in the adoption "industry" are older kids who are often set formed individuals. Many with a host of "issues".
I'm for the woman's reproductive rights, but late term stuff is just plain wrong and evil. I'd say 4 months, but I'm content to let science answer the question.
I really can't empathize with the sad stories on this thread because I am blessed to live in Texas and literally know no one who will be casting a vote for Kerry tomorrow. But if I were in some of the situations described in these posts, I would find a new place to live, far away from the malicious bullies that I had no choice in selecting as my family. When I relocated, I would find another like-minded family that I agree with (perhaps at my church) and I would make that my family. Life is too short to be stuck with lousy people just because they share a bloodline with you. Think of it as a divorce because of irreconcilable differences that will make your life much happier and less stressful. And lest you think this sounds unloving, may I ask why you want to be kicked around by people who obviously do not love or respect you and get off on harrassing you at family gatherings? They enjoy attacking you and making you miserable, and that's not a sign of love.
I'll tell you what: I love living behind enemy lines, and I love that my wife's family's political beliefs are so diametrically opposed to mine, because it keeps my political mind sharp, focused, and always on guard, making my political beliefs among the most well-defined and respected of the people I consider friends, colleagues, fellows, and kin. I wouldn't have it any other way. And you know what, I've "converted" not a small handful of typical Massachusetts/New England liberals to my conservative-Lockian-"Spirit of '75"-libertarian way of thinking. At the very least, I get people to question the political assumptions that people up here take for granted. I wouldn't want to be just another ditto-head in a red state; I enjoy being a missionary.
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