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Look at Kerry's John J. HYLAND Silver Star Citation (Justified!)
The Bandit

Posted on 09/11/2004 5:56:56 PM PDT by The Bandit

Look at the justification of Kerry's Silver Star Citation that was written in 1969. A fake as well?

http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Silver_Star.pdf


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: citation; fraud; hoax; kerry; silverstar
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To: The Bandit
SO WHAT? You are grasping at straws here. When you started this thread out, you were focused on JUSTIFICATION. That it wouldn't have been done in 1969. Your original premise has been blown completely out of the water. END OF STORY.

The reason Kerry's Silver Star is fraudulent is not because it was forged, it was because misrepresented his record to get it.

61 posted on 09/11/2004 6:56:20 PM PDT by mcg1969
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To: The Bandit
In fact, the very fact that all three of the examples use such significantly different typesetting, and yet were ALL justified anyway, bolsters my point. It would be one thing if they all shared the same style, and Kerry's was different. This is not the case; they are ALL different, demonstrating that there was not a single printing standard at the time.
62 posted on 09/11/2004 6:58:28 PM PDT by mcg1969
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To: Names Ash Housewares; Buckhead; Howlin
I have a concern about the first page of that PDF. Were italicized proportional fonts (kerning built in) around in 1969? It's odd because the second page shows the correct monotype for that time period. Notice, too, that the first page has typed letters at the bottom that are also monotype. Why would one document contain two different type styles?
63 posted on 09/11/2004 6:58:42 PM PDT by rintense (Results matter.)
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To: mcg1969

I am only grasping at straws if you can show how the Navy could produce such perfect justification compared to all other citations of the era. This thread is about the QUALITY of the JUSTIFICATION!!!!!!


64 posted on 09/11/2004 7:00:58 PM PDT by The Bandit
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To: The Bandit

That's what I'm wondering too. Italicized proportional (and fully justified) type would have been extremely uncommon in 1969. Hell, I was born in 1969 and my birth certificate was typed. I'm more interested in the PDF that shows the silver star with a V.


65 posted on 09/11/2004 7:01:01 PM PDT by rintense (Results matter.)
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To: Sloth

Yeah, but the first page of the Kerry PDF isn't courier. It's a serifed font with proportional spacing.


66 posted on 09/11/2004 7:02:06 PM PDT by rintense (Results matter.)
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To: rintense
I have a concern about the first page of that PDF. Were italicized proportional fonts (kerning built in) around in 1969?

Of course it did. Typesetters could do all sorts of things. Look, people, the Killian forgery scandal arises from the fact that they were supposedly composed on a typewriter which is far less capable than a typesetter.

It's odd because the second page shows the correct monotype for that time period.

There is no "correct" monotype. There were plenty of fonts to choose from in that time period.

Notice, too, that the first page has typed letters at the bottom that are also monotype. Why would one document contain two different type styles?

Umm, because it can?

67 posted on 09/11/2004 7:02:26 PM PDT by mcg1969
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To: The Bandit
Pick up any book printed in 1969. Heck, pick up any book printed in 1939. It will show perfect justification. Why? Because it was typeset, and typesetters can do that.

This is ABSOLUTELY NUTS, man. Give it up.

68 posted on 09/11/2004 7:04:47 PM PDT by mcg1969
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To: Tamsey
Definitely two font types in that. Is it possible that two different people entered typed information in on two different typewriters?
69 posted on 09/11/2004 7:06:23 PM PDT by rintense (Results matter.)
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To: The Bandit

Posts 21, 23, and 30 are all justified as well as Kerry's. Yeah some of them use hyphenation but that doesn't matter, that's a choice of the layout editor.


70 posted on 09/11/2004 7:06:35 PM PDT by mcg1969
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To: rintense
Definitely two font types in that. Is it possible that two different people entered typed information in on two different typewriters?

Absolutely. In fact that is almost certainly what happened.

71 posted on 09/11/2004 7:07:44 PM PDT by mcg1969
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To: mcg1969

It makes sense that some admin person would fill in portions and then an officer would finish it up. But hey, this is so much fun!


72 posted on 09/11/2004 7:14:13 PM PDT by rintense (Results matter.)
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To: rintense; The Bandit

You guys may be wondering why I'm making such a big deal of this.

The reason is this: it hurts the credibility of the Killian forgery investigation if we go trotting off and practicing our newfound forgery-detection skills on every written document we see.

Why? Because honestly, we have acutally been WRONG about 50% of the time in the various conclusions we have drawn. For example, first there was the claim that typewriters couldn't do proportional spacing. FALSE (IBM Executive, for example). Second, there was the claim that typewriters couldn't do justification. FALSE (IBM Selectric Composer, for example). Then there was the claim that no printer could produce a small "th" (One of Bush's own records contradicts that, though it is important to not that it is not superscripted.)

So basically, even though our hunches were entirely justified, and have proven correct OVERALL, the fact remains that we've been throwing everything at these Killian documents to see what sticks; and not much of it is doing so. Fortunately, enough of it IS sticking that we're coming up with a winner.

But if we practice the same pseudo-science in all these other documents, we're going to come up short, guaranteed.

Kerry's certificates WERE NOT FORGED. They were obtained fraudulently, but they were not forged.


73 posted on 09/11/2004 7:14:33 PM PDT by mcg1969
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To: rintense

Dunno... I'm not familiar enough with military procedure to be able to tell.

I find a few random DD214's via google and couldn't find one with two fonts.


74 posted on 09/11/2004 7:16:46 PM PDT by Tamzee (Free Republic .... Partisan Pajama People :-))
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To: mcg1969
Absolutely. In fact that is almost certainly what happened.

Can I ask why you think that? Were you in the military?

I'm not confronting you, I actually hope you are right. We have enough on our plates right now without worrying about Kerry's documents being forged, too. I'd just like to know for sure from somebody with military experience before we discount it entirely.

75 posted on 09/11/2004 7:20:29 PM PDT by Tamzee (Free Republic .... Partisan Pajama People :-))
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To: Tamsey
No, I wasn't in the military, and even if I were, it doesn't really indicate much unless I was in the same office. Obviously different offices could have different procedures. But I do have a birth certificate from an Oklahoma military hospital in 1969 that clearly used more than one typewriter. I should know it is mine :)

I'm relying on a combination of Occam's razor and common sense here. Even if people are unwilling to assume that all of Kerry's documents are legit, I think it is silly not to assume that most are. Once you make this assumption you realize that you need far more than a suspicion here and a suspicion there to make a provable forgery case. Killian's documents on the other hand are literally FULL of problems. FULL of them.

And if I needed more evidence to make me feel better, I would likely start poring through other documents from the time per

76 posted on 09/11/2004 7:27:41 PM PDT by mcg1969
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To: The Bandit

Interesting.


77 posted on 09/11/2004 7:29:38 PM PDT by Ciexyz ("FR, best viewed with a budgie on hand".)
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To: mcg1969

The BIG Deal in my mind is this citation was clearly produced at a later time. The BIG DEAL also is WHY? Was it to edit something out, like going behind hooch which in 1996 Kerry announced did not ever happen? Has anyone ever seen the Hyman citation prior to say, 2000? Has Kerry ever given an explanation to why he has THREE citations for the same award?


78 posted on 09/11/2004 7:34:31 PM PDT by The Bandit
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To: The Bandit

The original, Hyland memo? Clearly produced at a later time? NONSENSE. What is your evidence? If you say its justification, I'm gonna come over there and slap you. (Just kidding about that.)


79 posted on 09/11/2004 7:38:59 PM PDT by mcg1969
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To: The Bandit

Seriously, the justification argument has been blown out of the water. 3 other examples from the same time period have been produced on this very thread showing that professional justification was commonplace on such awards. And the fact that all 3 used different typefaces makes it reasonable to believe that yet another typeface was employed on Kerry's.

So again you have no typographical evidence that this memo was not produced in its proper timeframe.


80 posted on 09/11/2004 7:41:18 PM PDT by mcg1969
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