Posted on 08/27/2004 10:47:29 PM PDT by doug from upland
This thread is to debate whether Paul Hamm should keep his gold medal. I am putting up another thread for those who wish to join me in sending him a message of congratulations.
who is Paul Hamm?
He should keep it. At first I though what a great sportsmen he would be to offer it as a split medal, then the real facts came out and the Korean did not deserve to even medal at all. It is an insult to him and the hard work he has done to try and make him get rid of it. The USOC and the IOC is absolutely right on this and the FGC (right acronym?) went way over board on this. If I was Hamm and the USOC I would demand an apoligy from the FGC.
Paul earned the gold. If the Koreans want to push this, Yang should give up his bronze to the guy who came in fourth as he had four holds instead of three.
A very good point.
You're right-the Korean had too many grip changes and should have been marked down for it, putting him completely out of contention.
Also, why expect to Hamm to be such a magnanimous sportsman, when the Koreans are allowed to tarnish Hamm's accomplishment without any mention of what poor sports they are behaving like, even if they had a legitimate beef?
Gymnastics judging is very subjective. The judges that night gave Mr. Hamm the score he needed to finish first. They felt he had the best score. Had the Korean's score been scored correctly and been higher, there is nothing to say the judges would not have scored Mr. Hamm accordingly higher to award him the gold.
Similary the judges did not deduct as much as they might have from the Korean's score on one event [bars?] because he started from such a low maximum. Anyone who watches gymnastics knows this, even though the Federation likes to pretend scoring is all science.
Bottom line, the judges thought Mr. Hamm was the best all around gymnast that day. You can go back and pick at this or that or the other call or judgement in any sporting event. Mr. Hamm earned his medal and should keep it.
I understand that he did not cheat to win the Gold Medal but he is taking credit for something he did not actually do.
Suppose in 36 years Paul runs for President of the United States and as part of his Campaign he 'claims' to have won a Gold Medal at the 2004 Olympics.
However, everyone who was in Athens form a group, buy commercial time and tell the world what really happened at the Olympics.
He should give back his medals just as John Kerry should give up his medals.
Thanks for bringing the debate here. :)
John Kerry wrote the phony reports for his medals. I don't think Paul did that.
If another officer made an error and wrote up Kerry for a medal, he should keep it. If Kerry wrote it up himself and phonied it up and resubmitted after it was turned down --- he doesn't get it.
The judging error which the Koreans are claiming was counterbalanced by another which would more than offset it. I see no basis for saying that only judging error that was adverse to the Korean should be corrected. If correcting all errors would have put the Korean ahead, then a split gold would probably have been apropos. But from my understanding of the sport and the routines, that was not the case.
What about changing the judging procedures so that the judges get to view multi-angle video of each routine using slow motion, frame-step, etc. as they seem necessary, and using a scoring checklist to determine the marks. High resolution cameras have advanced to the point that one could use some stationary zoomed-out cameras and have the judge retroactively zoom and scan the recording (so as to avoid having cameramen influence the results). While there may be some room for subjective judgements, I think having a checklist of a judge's individual observations would go a long way to making the scoring fairer and more comprehensible.
I just read on Fox News that his gold medal will be taken away and given to the Korean gymnast. This hits home for me as well as for any teacher who has had a grade challenged and changed due to an unjust complaint. This is yet another example of empty barrels making the most noise.
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