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When Did Clinton Know of Plots to Use Planes as Weapons?
Patriot Paradox ^

Posted on 04/09/2004 9:30:55 PM PDT by sonsofliberty2000

I'm doing research for a sociology report on terrorism, and solutions to it when I happened on this tidbit:

Ramsi Yousef's dastardly plot to blow up a dozen US airliners over the Pacific had been uncovered in 1995 before he could execute it. But the conversation that his co-conspirator, Abdul Hakim Murad, had with the Phillipines intelligence service revealed that Murad had trained as a commercial pilot in American flying schools, in Albany near New York, Richmond in Virginia, and San Antonio, Texas.

Murad made it clear that as early as 1994 fanatical extremeists like Yousef's group, linked to al-Qaeda, had already begun to think of using a plane as a weapon of mass destruction.

'He will hijack the aircraft, control its cockpit and dive it at CIA headquarters,' read the intelligence report of the Murad debreifing. 'There will be no bomb or any explosive that he will use in its execution. It is simply a suicide mission that he is willing to execute...The subject was observed to be very angry at Americans and the United States government.'

Should I assume the Phillipines did not share this info with us, especially if I found it, as did the author of the book I'm reading?

(Source: Al-Qaeda: The Terror Network that Threatens the World, Jane Corbin, 2002)


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Admin: This may either be new info, or old, but I am unsure. So please move if you must, but thought this could be useful.

Patriot Paradox

1 posted on 04/09/2004 9:30:56 PM PDT by sonsofliberty2000
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To: sonsofliberty2000
When Did Clinton Know of Plots to Use Planes as Weapons?

He probably didn't...he was too busy boinking portly interns and defending perjury charges to do his job.

2 posted on 04/09/2004 9:33:56 PM PDT by South40 (Amnesty for ILLEGALS is a slap in the face to the USBP!)
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To: sonsofliberty2000
Damn straight. Hit it hard, hit it often, and Google the h*ll out of it.
3 posted on 04/09/2004 9:36:02 PM PDT by dandelion
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To: dandelion
Well it is now up at my blog at this link:

http://www.patriot-paradox.com/archives/000664.html

My biggest question is is this known info that is readily out there?



Patriot Paradox

4 posted on 04/09/2004 9:38:17 PM PDT by sonsofliberty2000 (In this springtime of hope, some lights seem eternal; America's is. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: sonsofliberty2000
All I can add is that I remember reading in the 90's that the Philippine Government had foiled a plot to use several jetliners in suicide missions. I would bet heavily that the Clinton Administration knew about the plot.
5 posted on 04/09/2004 9:39:34 PM PDT by Enterprise
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To: sonsofliberty2000
I think Clintoon was too busy collecting campaign contributions from China in exchange for ICBM guidance technology and MIRV (multiple independently targetable reentry vehicles; ie warheads) technology to notice what terrorists were up to.
6 posted on 04/09/2004 9:39:57 PM PDT by TigersEye (One nation under God ....... or war.)
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To: sonsofliberty2000
Googling is the way to go.

IIRC, the Phillipines tortured a captured Islamist and got among other things from him that they were planning on using airliners as bombs against the US.

The Clinton administration was immediately informed, but discounted the information, chiefly, or as least so they would later claim, because information extracted via torture is unreliable.

That is true in general, however, everything else squeezed out of the terrorist turned out to be true.

Yet *another* failure on the part of Clinton and Clarke from the decade of ignoring the terror threat.
7 posted on 04/09/2004 9:41:11 PM PDT by swilhelm73
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To: Enterprise
I would bet heavily that the Clinton Administration knew about the plot.

Yes, I absolutely agree. Question then should be: What did Clinton do after he learned of the plot?

8 posted on 04/09/2004 9:41:53 PM PDT by abner (FREE THE MIRANDA MEMOS! http://www.intelmemo.com or http://www.wintersoldier.com)
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To: B.Bumbleberry; prarie earth; UnklGene; Cathryn Crawford; CholeraJoe; Chad Fairbanks; ...
Ping
9 posted on 04/09/2004 9:43:43 PM PDT by sonsofliberty2000 (In this springtime of hope, some lights seem eternal; America's is. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: sonsofliberty2000
Throughout the 1990s, we were led to believe that Clinton was brilliant and knew everything. So he must have missed this one, or compartmentalized it away. Could be he was just too busy getting a hummer when that bit of info landed on his desk.

Maybe you should ask him. But be sure to put him under oath first!!!
10 posted on 04/09/2004 9:44:12 PM PDT by kevao
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To: swilhelm73
Thanks! So I figure this is actually a good bit of info needing put out again. Clinton admin, including Clarke knew of this and discounted it. Never reported in any info as far as I can tell between the administrations either.

Patriot Paradox

11 posted on 04/09/2004 9:45:59 PM PDT by sonsofliberty2000 (In this springtime of hope, some lights seem eternal; America's is. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: abner
He probably told the Philippine Government that they did a good job,then he back to the job with Monica.
12 posted on 04/09/2004 9:46:13 PM PDT by Enterprise
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To: abner
Question then should be: What did Clinton do after he learned of the plot?

He asked Monica for a hummer and marched out to the nearest microphone and blamed the OKC bombing on right-wing talk radio. What a statesman!

13 posted on 04/09/2004 9:46:44 PM PDT by TigersEye (One nation under God ....... or war.)
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To: sonsofliberty2000
In the 1990s, I think most people in government and/or intelligence knew of plots to fly airplanes into buildings. There was the Bojinka plan to crash planes into Sears Tower, WTC, CIA headquarters (I think) and some other buildings in the US. There was the plan to crash the hijacked airliner into the Eiffel Tower. It's not like no one could have imagined it, it had been out there for a couple years.
14 posted on 04/09/2004 9:48:04 PM PDT by CalKat
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To: sonsofliberty2000
I think this answers your question:

JANUARY 1995: (BOJINKA, PHILLIPPINES AIRLINER PLOT INDICTMENT, MOHAMMED) Plotters were indicted in the Southern District of NY in January, 1995, the US learned of the plot based in Manila to bomb 12 commercial jumbo jets of US carriers flying Asian-Pacific routes. The following defendant is included in the Indictment returned in the Southern District of NY: Khalid Shaikh Mohammed -Whitehouse.gov news release 20011010-1.html

JANUARY 1995 : (PROJECT BOJINKA, PHILIPPINES) (According to the German paper 'Die Welt') AFP - Western secret services knew as far back as 1995 that suspected terror mastermind Osama bin Laden planned to attack civilian sites using commercial passenger planes, German newspaper Die Welt said. Quoting sources close to western intelligence services, Die Welt said authorities did not take seriously the threat of the plan, known as Project Bojinka. Phillipine police, investigating a possible attack against Pope John Paul II on a visit to Manila, found details of the plan in a computer seized in an apartment used by three men who were part of bin Laden's al-Qaeda network. It provided for 11 planes to be exploded simultaneously by bombs placed on board, but also in an alternative form for several planes flying to the United States to be hijacked and flown into civilian targets. Among targets mentioned was the World Trade Centre in New York, which was destroyed in the September 11 terror attacks in the United States that killed thousands. Other targets mentioned were CIA offices in Virginia and the Sears Tower in Chicago, Die Welt said. The plot re-surfaced during the trial in NY in 1997 of Pakistani Ramsi Youssef, the mastermind of the attack on the WTC in 1993. (* My note : The computer seized by Philippine police was that of 1993 WTC bomber Ramzi Yousef, who got to watch his dream of destroying the WTC become reality from a luxury prison cell (complete with TV) in Colorado.)

Speaking of 1995:

1995 : (IRANIAN-LINKED CONSPIRACY TO ATTACK US TARGETS) According to later [1997] reported comments by Hani Abdel Rahim Sayegh, a senior Iranian intelligence officer, Brig. Ahmad Sherifi, and a local cell of the Lebanon-based Hezbollah organization were linked in a "conspiracy" to attack U.S. targets in 1995- "Khobar Towers Bombing in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia," the Washington Post, June 25, 1996

1995 : (PHILLIPPINES AIRLINER PLOT FOILED, BOJINKA, ISAMUDDIN, MOHAMMED, HAMBALI, KHAN, YOUSEF, MURAD) Foiled plot to bomb 12 U.S. airliners. FBI named Khalid Shaikh Mohammed as suspect. Al Qeada plot to blow up 12 US jetliners over the Pacific Ocean foiled by a freak accident and fire in in the Manila apartment that served as the group's bomb factory.; financed by Indonesian cleric Riduan Isamuddin, 37 - better known as Hambali - who has also been linked to two Sept 11 hijackers. One of the plotters later told investigators in the Philippines that the ultimate plan had been to hijack a commercial airliner and crash it into government buildings in Washington - a plan that foreshadowed the Sept 11 plot. Involved with Khan - Hambali's business partner - in the plot to bomb the 12 planes was Ramzi Yousef, who was also found guilty in the 1993 truck bombing of the WTC, and Pakistani Abdul Hakim Murad.

1995 : (BIN LADEN MEETS IRAQI INTELLIGENCE AGENTS IN SUDAN) Bin Laden again met with Iraqi intelligence officers in 1994 and 1995 in the Sudan. At these meetings, bin-Laden and Iraqi intelligence secret service director Faruq al-Hijazi agreed to work together on terrorist projects directed against the U.S. - Findlaw, Ashton, et al. v. al Qaeda

1995 : (CLASSIFIED DIAGRAM OF US W-87 NUCLEAR WARHEAD GIVEN TO PRESS; IT WAS PRINTED IN US NEWS AND WORLD REPORT : INVESTIGATION QUASHED BEFORE IT LED TO HAZEL O'LEARY?) "Someone at the Department of Energy gave a classified design diagram of the W-87 nuclear warhead to U.S. News & World Report magazine which printed it in its July 31 issue that year. Representative Curt Weldon is still trying to get answers about how this leak was investigated and what was determined. He has good reason to believe the investigation was quashed because it was going to lead straight to President Clinton's Energy Secretary. "

1995 : (RAHMAN CONVICTED NY TUNNEL PLOTS, WTC 1 ATTACK) Sheik Omar Abdul Rahman was convicted for "directing others to perform acts" such as plotting to bomb bridges, tunnels and buildings in New York City, in the words of the trial judge. That case showed him to be a central figure for the Islamic extremists who carried out the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center and, later, for some of those involved in the 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. - "FBI Wary of Investigating Extremist Muslim Leaders: Agency May Rethink Hesitancy on Religious Figures," By Walter Pincus, Washington Post Staff Writer, Monday, October 29, 2001; Page A04

FEBRUARY 27, 1995 : (IRAN, US) "Iranian sources confirmed Tehran's desire and determination to strike inside the U.S. against objects symbolizing the American government in the near future," said a Feb. 27, 1995, terror warning by the House Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare. The warnings became increasingly specific as to the possible location, type of attack and likely dates. "These strikes are most likely to occur either in the immediate future or in the new Iranian year - starting 21 March 1995," the congressional task force predicted. U.S. intelligence monitored a series of meetings and conferences between senior officials of Iran, Syria, Hezbollah and other terror organizations in mid-February 1995 in which the subject of killing Americans on U.S. soil came up, officials said. During these conferences, known terrorists made specific mention of Congress and the White House as "institutions that are great enemies of the Islamist movement," according to a congressional warning. "This is a deviation from past discussions beyond referring to the U.S. as a single entity to pointing to specific branches of government as their true enemies," it added. Around the same time, the FBI received intelligence from the Philippines that two men later convicted in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing had been arrested as they were plotting to blow up U.S. airliners. The men planned to hijack one airliner and crash it into the CIA, Pentagon or White House, documents show. The marshal's warning explained that Islamic extremists had issued a fatwa to kill marshals personnel or strike their buildings because of an episode at the end of the World Trade Center bombing trial in which deputy marshals accidentally stepped on a copy of the Koran during a scuffle. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/702985/posts

MARCH 1995 : (US EMBASSY EMPLOYEES MURDERED IN PAKISTAN - SEE WTC 1 BOMBING ) American employees of the U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan killed in response to arrest of suspect in the first WTC bombing.

MARCH 20, 1995 : (JAPAN, AUM CULT, WMD TERRORISM, SARIN NERVE GAS ATTACK) Japanese terrorists of the Aum (or Aum Shinrikyo) cult, which believes that the end of the world is imminent, released Sarin nerve gas into Tokyo subway trains. 12 killed and approximately 5,000 to 6,000 injured. 10/95 Japanese government revoked Aum's classification as a religious organization, but decided not to invoke a law that would have outlawed the organization. Suspect Shoko Asahara, who founded the cult in 1987, imprisoned by the Japanese government. *
Twelve civilians killed and thousands injured in a Sarin nerve gas attack on the Kasumigaski subway station in the centre of Tokyo, Japan. The Aum Shinrikyo cult were blamed for the attack which involved placing gas containers in subway stations and trains. A major police clamp down on the cult followed the attack with its leader Shoko Asahara being arrested two months later. The previous June seven people died and one hundred and fifty were injured in a gas attack in Matsumoto, Japan, also perpetrated by the Aum. In that attack, the gas was sprayed from tanks in a van in an attempt to assassinate a judge. Subsequent investigation identified the gas as Sarin nerve agent.* Twelve civilians killed and thousands injured in a Sarin nerve gas attack on the Kasumigaski subway station in the centre of Tokyo, Japan. The Aum Shinrikyo cult were blamed for the attack which involved placing gas containers in subway stations and trains. A major police clamp down on the cult followed the attack with its leader Shoko Asahara being arrested two months later. The previous June seven people died and one hundred and fifty were injured in a gas attack in Matsumoto, Japan, also perpetrated by the Aum. In that attack, the gas was sprayed from tanks in a van in an attempt to assassinate a judge. Subsequent investigation identified the gas as Sarin nerve agent.

MARCH 20, 1995 : (JAPAN : AUM SHINRIKYO CULT ATTACKS TOKYO SUBWAY SYSTEM WITH SARIN GAS, KILLING 12 AND SICKENING THOUSANDS) The guru of the Aum Shinrikyo (Supreme Truth) doomsday cult, Shoko Asahara, masterminded the sarin gas attack on Tokyo’s subway system on March 20, 1995. Twelve people were killed and 2,500 sickened. - "The biowar threat: Jordanian ‘mastermind’ sought," by Ed Blanche, The Daily Star , April 29 2003

APRIL 19, 1995 : (OKC BOMBING)

and so on- this was a very busy year for terrorism & the Pakistani nuclear proliferation problem.

15 posted on 04/09/2004 9:49:21 PM PDT by piasa (Understatement of the Year)
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To: piasa
"Understatement of the Year"

Indeed! Great info, and surely tells us Clinton had to know.



Patriot Paradox

16 posted on 04/09/2004 9:52:19 PM PDT by sonsofliberty2000 (In this springtime of hope, some lights seem eternal; America's is. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: sonsofliberty2000
We should also keep in mind that members of Congress probably had access to this info too. Daschle, Gephardt, Kerry, Kennedy et al. One might ask "so did Republican congress critters, where were they?" But seriously, does the media give any credence to Republicans now? Does anyone seriously think a Republican would have taken intel like this to the press then?
17 posted on 04/09/2004 9:52:43 PM PDT by TigersEye (One nation under God ....... or war.)
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To: TigersEye
Well someone dropped a pretty big ball before Bush even had a chance to run in 2000. He was still in TX.

Patriot Paradox

18 posted on 04/09/2004 9:56:28 PM PDT by sonsofliberty2000 (In this springtime of hope, some lights seem eternal; America's is. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: sonsofliberty2000
in 95 that is!

Patriot Paradox

19 posted on 04/09/2004 9:57:00 PM PDT by sonsofliberty2000 (In this springtime of hope, some lights seem eternal; America's is. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: piasa
1995 : (BIN LADEN MEETS IRAQI INTELLIGENCE AGENTS IN SUDAN) Bin Laden again met with Iraqi intelligence officers in 1994 and 1995 in the Sudan. At these meetings, bin-Laden and Iraqi intelligence secret service director Faruq al-Hijazi agreed to work together on terrorist projects directed against the U.S. - Findlaw, Ashton, et al. v. al Qaeda

I just heard Charles Rangel on the Sean Hannity show today state flatly that there was no connection between Iraq and terrorists. Doesn't he get intelligence? ...briefings

20 posted on 04/09/2004 9:58:35 PM PDT by TigersEye (One nation under God ....... or war.)
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