ZOT!!! I always cry at zottings.

2-18-04 | Bob Gold

[Bob Gold]

I'm an Orthodox Jew and have been skeptical about the entire marriage debate. Jewish law does not recognize ANY marriage that includes a non-Jew, whatever the genders. The Bible, of course, never describes marriage except for the obligations of divorce if a man has "taken awife/woman." I was amazed, though, by my own reactions to the joy, peace and conviction of the gay couples I have seen getting married. I wept. I have searched my heart and mind for any conservative value that conflicts with acts of assuming responsibility for another person and a relationship under law that I have seen.

Am I the only religious conservative to have had such a revelation or are there others who have been forced to rethink their beliefs by experiences like these? I am not trying to convince anyone of anything or have an argument. I am just deeply moved and very confused about my sense of the total rightness of what these people are doing and my inability to justify my belief that the practice is absurd.

Bob

[Future Snake Eater]

Take a hike, supposed "conservative." I'm getting married in about a week and a half and I'm appalled by the mocking of the commitment I'm making by these queers. They can live happily back in the closet. I've had it with being "accepting" of their lifestyle.

[johniegrad]

Am I the only religious conservative to have had such a revelation or are there others who have been forced to rethink their beliefs by experiences like these?

Good question. I vote for you being the only religious pseudoconservative to have had such a pseudorevelation.

[eureka!]

We're going to be seeing a whole lot of Moby Trolls in the coming months. Here, talk radio, all over. The good news is the real Rats are defining their party and the people are getting sick of them, their lies and tactics and their agendas. There's a new wind a blowin'....

[LuigiBasco]

Poof!

[TheGeezer]

I cried at the last gay wedding I attended. The decor at the reception hall was soooooo gauche!

LOL! What a hoot!

[Neets]

I wept.

Yea?

Well so did this phoney

[Iron Eagle]

Bob:

Thank you for your thoughtful post. I hope you are not automatically flamed.

Your passionate struggle with this difficult issue is understandable.

There are many here who will talk about the act, the sin etc. All of which are legitimate concerns. In the end, the issue is really about a state's right to set a standard of preferred activity, and to reward that activity with privileges consistent with a desire to create incentives. Plainly stated, the state still rightfully see the best family circumstance as one that involves the marriage of a man and a woman, living together, educated, and raising a family. Statistically, that group provides the best benefit to the state and society, irrespective of the tons of examples where the norm is bad.

Marriage, is a privilege. The state cannot and does not, and should not prevent people from living how they wish. Unmarried couples may cohabitate. People may live together and care for each other with out sex, e.g. brothers and sisters, and gays and lesbians may live together as well. But, when a group comes to the state, and asks for a special recognition, the state should have the right to determine who should receive such a recognition.

Discrimination would be preventing couple from living together. That is different from such a couple looking for special recognition and benefits.

I know gay and lesbian couples that live productive lives and are community servants. I know married couples who should be jailed for what they have done to each other and their children. Thus, when a couple dedicate themselves to each other, and treat each other with respect. I think that is great. BUT, I still believe a state has the right to set a high standard in an effort to encourage and give support to the best possible family circumstance. Accordingly, gay "marriage" conflicts with the states ability to do that. In my principled opinion, this is no different than denying benefits and privileges to those who cohabitate, or even those that live and care for each other in a platonic relationship. Those relationships do not rise to the standard that we try to set for our communities.

That is why this issue is so tough for those of us that look at the issue dispassionately. This coming from a pro-life, conservative, married catholic father of three.

Regards

[Slings and Arrows]

People are always crying at weddings. There must be a reason.

It's a normal reaction to tragedy.

[grellis]

I have searched my heart and mind for any conservative value that conflicts with acts of assuming responsibility for another person and a relationship under law that I have seen.

I might be just a lowly Catholic, but don't Jews obey G-d's law?

[Slings and Arrows]

Oy vey! You don't sound authentically verklempt to be a real Jew -- but the Jewish-sounding name was a nice (albeit somewhat heavyhanded) touch.

Maybe he goes to shul with David Goldman.

[NYC GOP Chick]

Maybe he goes to shul with David Goldman.

You have done something very rare; you've left me speechless...

[Slings and Arrows]

You have done something very rare; you've left me speechless...

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Maybe we should turn this "Bob Gold" schmuck over to the Neturei Carta. Talk about a win-win scenario!

[NYC GOP Chick]

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

It's such a rare occurence, I'm not really sure!

Maybe we should turn this "Bob Gold" schmuck over to the Neturei Carta. Talk about a win-win scenario!

Good plan!

[grellis]

There ought to be a law against starting comments with the "I am a _____, but _____".

What is missing is the usual dead giveaway: "I've been lurking on this forum for years..."

[grellis]

Congratulations on the upcoming nuptials! Are we having an open bar???

[Future Snake Eater]

Thanks!

Not just an open bar, a three hour open bar!

[petuniasevan]

Whoops we missed this "zot lite"...

[Alouette]

I'm an Orthodox Jew

Yeah, and I'm the Grand Duchess Anastasia

[Professional Engineer]

ZOTs of luck, Bob

[Not now, Not ever!]

I don't understand it, a ZOT and no kitties?

It seems such a waste!!!