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To: Truth666
"so they were able evolve faster from the carp than dogs could from wolves."

I understand that you are impressed with the velocity of "evolution".

It's not a question of being impressed, Just an observation. Goldfish are able to evolve new traits faster than dogs because they have 1000s of offspring per year as opposed to 1-6 which increases the chances of mutations and gives breeders much more to work with. Plus in dogs many of the original wolf traits are desirable so we wouldn't have been trying to breed all of them out.  

Would you please post the latin names of the fish displayed in your photos,

The original Carp Goldfish came from is the Gibel carp (Also known as the Prussian carp or Silver Crucian carp) it's latin species name is carassius auratus gibelio and all goldfish have the latin species name carassius auratus auratus.

Here is a better picture of the Gibel carp, As you can see the differences are striking.

Though I will point out I was in error before when I said Goldfish lost their barbels, They were already previously lost in the Gibel carp.

and tell when the first specimen of the three species at the bottom first were "created" ?

All three aren't considered different species (yet) from the original goldfish they are still just considered different breeds.

But all three were created between 1893-1908

Here is the history of Goldfish, I was slightly off before with some exact years but the point still stands that they are new created features/structures that were absent in the Gibel carp.

(d. = dynasty)

Chun d. (265-419) gold colouration first recorded

Tang d. (618-907) goldfish raised in captivity (in ponds) in Buddhist monasteries; common goldfish probably established

Nan Song d. (1127-1279) goldfish raised in domestic ponds; white and red-and-white colouration developed

Ming d. (1368-1644) goldfish raised in bowls indoors as pets, enabling selection for mutations that would not have survived (or been observed) in ponds; double tail and anal fins, dorsal-less condition and short body evolved, eggfish developed

1590 red cap

1592 globe eye

1596 matt scales and calico colouration; keeping of fancy goldfish, once the preserve of the aristocracy, now widespread.

1603 goldfish first exported to Japan

1611 goldfish first exported to Europe (Portugal)

Ching d. (1644-1911) bronze and blue colouration

1728 goldfish first bred in Europe (Holland)

1870 celestial

1874 goldfish first exported to America

1893 oranda/tigerhead

1900 pompon and pearlscale; shubunkin colouration developed in Japan

1908 bubble eye

1911 curled operculum

early 1900s comet and veiltail

1934 Bristol shubunkin standard promulgated

192 posted on 02/16/2004 3:10:38 PM PST by qam1 (Are Republicans the party of Reagan or the party of Bloomberg and Pataki?)
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To: qam1
"But all three were created between 1893-1908 "
By reading this below, I get the impression that they are not that old :
"the variety, and characteristics, of goldfish available in aquarium stores have changed dramatically during the past 20 years.
Most beginners are not really interested in the ordinary goldfish of yesterday - what today's market appallingly labels as "feeder goldfish."
Instead, goldfish keepers are attracted to the growing number of "fancy" goldfish varieties: lionheads veiltails, moors, bubble eyes, celestials, etc."
193 posted on 02/16/2004 4:02:31 PM PST by Truth666
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