'Passion' Needs Postscript

ADL ^ | Feb 3rd 2004 | By Abraham H. Foxman and Rabbi Granatoor

[sobieski]

Who is this Abe Foxman, and why should Mel Gibson give him the time of day? He doesn't like Mel's point of view; fine, that's his right. As is Mel's to make a film that fills his point of view.

[madison10]

Maybe they don't now, but they did then...at least a version of it. They believed the "sins of the fathers were visited on the sons." Is that not the same thing?

[rmlew]

This is an issue of faith, not politics.
We will find out when we die.

[Antoninus]

The atheist/nihilist Jewish Left hates the fact that there is alliance growing betwen Christians and Zionists.

Interesting point.

[churchillbuff]

the 100% veracity of biased bystanders in an event, writting years latter.

So we're not allowed to make movies that follow the accounts given in Scripture? Does that include a movie about Moses - - we can't follow the Scriptural text? Or a movie about David? or Solomon? Somehow I doubt you'd be arguing against a faithful adherence to Scripture in those cases.

My experience is that some Jews simply don't like Jesus, or his name or worship of him. I was at a church function once where Normal Lear was the featured speaker. It was right after a church service (he had sat through the service) -- he said, "The service was nice and the music was nice, but there was too much Jesus." He said this, it seemed, with a straight face -- how incredibly arrogant to tell christians they shouldn't be worshipping the one they believe is the Messiah! Foxman has the same arrogance - and a dislike of Jesus, it seems to me.

[churchillbuff]

May I ask you this? Who crucified myriads of Jews ? Who tortured Jews ? Who burned Jews to death ? Who burned them in their synagogues ? Who raped their wives, mothers, and daughters ? Who skinned them alive ? Who expelled them from their lands and took their possessions ? Who stole their children from them ? Who tried to kill every living Jew to the third generation ? Do you know the answers to these questions?

What relevance do these questions have to the movie, The Passion? By the way, have you been to Normandy and seen all the crosses above the graves of Christians who died fighting Hitler? Have you heard tapes of Churchill's speeches in which he called the crusade against Hitler a fight for "Christian Civilization"? Do you know that at the Atlantic Conference, when FDR and Churchill planned joint efforts against Hitler, they sang, "Onward Christian Soldiers"?

[rmlew]

There certainly are Jews who hate Christians.
However, most Jews concerend about the movie do so out of a communeal unthinking fear based on historical outbreaks of violence after Passion Plays.

[missyme]

Your posts make me think you are kind of sad? I hope you aren't...

[rmlew]

I think that those Jews who fear American Christians because of the actions of European Christians 100 years ago, may well be committing this sin of intergenrational hatred.

[af_vet_1981]

What relevance do these questions have to the movie, The Passion?

They pertain to the religious affiliation of the perps.

By the way, have you been to Normandy and seen all the crosses above the graves of Christians who died fighting Hitler?

Which definition of christian are you employing for purposes of this discussion ? Dataman does not consider infant baptism to be a valid or sufficient measure.

Have you heard tapes of Churchill's speeches in which he called the crusade against Hitler a fight for "Christian Civilization"?

No, what did he mean by it ? Shall we assume he excluded Russia or ?

Do you know that at the Atlantic Conference, when FDR and Churchill planned joint efforts against Hitler, they sang, "Onward Christian Soldiers"?

No, but it would not surprise me. That is a martial song and has been used before.

[VOA]

When I saw "postscript" I thought they meant the film needed to include the Resurrection.

The claim is that the movie is about the last 12 hours of Christ's life...
so when I read "postcript", I thought of the Resurrection, His reappearance,
ascension...
and how about "Postcript II: The Day Of Pentecost"?

[churchillbuff]

In other words, you reject the christianity of the millions who fought Hitler - - including, apparently, the thousands of chaplains and millions of soldiers who took communion from them before going into battle. The only "christians" in your book are persecutors. Gawd you do hate christianity. At least you've revealed your prejudices - - so people can see there's no use in conversing with you. So much bigotry (irrational, fact-denying, truth-spinning bigotry, christian-hating) in your dark heart.

[af_vet_1981]

Foxman doesn't get it. Maybe he's just afraid Jews will go to the movie & get converted. Doubt it, but it's possible.

No, he is afraid they will come up all pumped up with anger against Jews (mainly overseas and not in America). It has happened before for centuries. He is paranoid that the "blood libel" will be used again, but there is a historical basis for his paranoia. Human nature did not change in the 20th Century. What makes you think it will change in the 21st Century ?

[af_vet_1981]

In other words, you reject the christianity of the millions who fought Hitler - - including, apparently, the thousands of chaplains and millions of soldiers who took communion from them before going into battle. The only "christians" in your book are persecutors. Gawd you do hate christianity. At least you've revealed your prejudices - - so people can see there's no use in conversing with you. So much bigotry (irrational, fact-denying, truth-spinning bigotry, christian-hating) in your dark heart.

Huh ? What did I write to let you create that strawman ? Is that how you want to be treated ?

I asked for your definition of a christian and you turned on me in a personal attack full of hatred, anger, and made up falsehoods.

[churchillbuff]

Don't waste bandwith on this guy, madison -- he's a hater (see his post dismissing the christianity of the American and Brit soldiers who fell fighting Hitler).

[af_vet_1981]

Don't waste bandwith on this guy, madison -- he's a hater (see his post dismissing the christianity of the American and Brit soldiers who fell fighting Hitler).

Why are you lying and speaking evil about me ?

[yonif]

Ping.

[SJackson]

Thanks for the ping. I'm opting out of commenting on bigotry for now.

[Texas2step]

Thanks for the ping. I'm opting out of commenting on bigotry for now.

Good move, I think I'll follow suit. I was planning on replying to some comments from "the vet dude", but I don't think it would be worth the effort. :-)

Thanks for your post. Saved me 30 minute or so of debunking most of his posts. ;-)

[Dataman]

Nice to see you again. The lies get tiring, don't they?