Carry and Ammunition Suggestions for Condition Orange (Freeper Suggestions-Vanity)

Well folks, it's that time of year again. Tom Ridge and the people at DHS have received the analysis of the chatter gathered by NRO, DIA, and other assorted alphabet agencies and it appears that the Rags have decided to do the whole Grinch thing.

Naturally, Americans can be an awfully accomodating bunch, in that 72 virgins kind of way, so I was wondering that given that the threat board just went to orange, what are the Best Practices for carry, ammunition, and accessories during this period. In other words, are you stuck with your 9mm when you're going about your Christmas shopping, or should one carry the 12 guage in the gun rack.

I'm serious, folks. I'm not being facetious. It only sounds that way. I have been expecting terrorists to make guerilla style attacks and acts of sabotage in the U.S. for two years now as an expression of Islamic "manhood". Unfortunately for them, there's something called the Second Amendment. So this thread is for practical suggestions for carry and concealment, choice of firearms and ammunition in a low intensity warfare environment, and of course, best practices for small unit tactics in case you run into the Madrass Jihad for Allah (as opposed to, say, the Campus Crusade for Christ).

Hey..this is your Muttly you're conversing with.

Running away WELL is something we specialize in, and plan on at all times. The fact is, however...that we run away in order to secure for ourselves a much better opportunity to retaliate with as extreme finality as we can imagine.

A Tactical Retreat. After I learned the stunt of acting stupid, medicated, drunk, stupid...and then suddenly disembowling my opponent (hey, it was HIS idea to mug ME !), or perhaps something horrible...and SUDDEN...I thought about it...and adjusted myself to the T.R. Then I built it into my doctrine.

This...as I had been reviewing all evening, preparing to Post...is my main reason for choosing the 9mm as my "always" gun, and wringing it out as thoroughly as I have...since I expect to expend all my ammunition more sooner than later...and those who use the .45 know what they're doing...but I can always overcome a thug or useless nimrod and acquire his cache of 9mm...even an errant LE qualifies, if push comes to eat, sad to say.

That's why they call it "'Muttly!" We get there.

I'm glad we got to this realm. It is my overall Modus Operandi regarding weaponry, and "survival."

I expect (always "worst-case") that most equipment will be used up, lost, or not brought. So, one should be expertly proficient with what he can reasonably carry and use at all times, before the acursed event. This means a knife and handgun. If a rifle or shotgun is available when the disaster hits, and it lasts a long, long time...one may just end up shortening said longarm, then we're back to pistols. Anyway...when among people, in a disaster...one may need to be unarmed for "mutual trust"...which is when the wise hide a pistol..of whatever kind. So...what can one feed ? A 10mm? A .41 mag? A .32 mag?

A 9mm, .38 (chambered .357!), .380, .44 mag. Those are the average ones. This is why I have always wanted a 9mm revolver. Muttly hate magazines. (like stripper clips, though !)

Give yourself some training in adjusted point of aim on your property. 350 to 400 meter shots with a handgun are possible for 18" brisket sized torso and doggies when properly applied. Place a 55 gallon drum or a large metal gong at the 200 , 300 and 400 yard marks. Preferably on a dry dusty day so ya can see where your rounds are dropping. Then fix your self a point of aim high and right, play the wind and such and see what your Browning Highpower will do at those ranges. At the ranges in my area I know where the rock or bush is that gives me an aiming point and I can make hits but am uncertain of the terminal ballistics at that range. I bet it still hurts like a bitch if ya make a hit of a soft skin critter. After a few hundred rounds I believe you'll find this "game" has viable uses for vermin control with a handgun.

Give it an honest try.......As to rifle /handgun calibers I like the 45 colt or 44 Rem Magnum . Were I to have to choose a couple of calibers that would be my choices. A Marlin in 45 colt and a 625 S&W or Ruger Bisley Blackhawk in that caliber. The other choice would be a ruger 77/44 and a Model 29 S&W to allow 44 special or magnums for use.

Stay Safe !

Just what I had planned, but now you have outlined the procedure for me perfectly. Your choices are what I have settled upon, too...as well as seeing just how far I can push a .357 with heavy bullets, as our friend Paco recommends. He even hunts boar with it...but advised me to be very careful with critters with teeth and tusks that could kill me! Sounds right. I am even considering a SAA in .357 Maximum (Supermag) if I can find one...just to try, and always be able to chamber normal rounds, as discussed earlier. A cylinder in 9mm too would make an astounding "survival" tool. But really, for the actual purpose, not just getting dual-use out of my defense piece (HP), the .44 suits my needs, including ammo availability, and I will get a tougher one than the flimsy but beautiful Uberti I have, for proper use. They no longer make them in .44 Mag...and I can see why. It was a special run for a firearms industry friend. I ended up with it, instead of an Abilene which we were manufacturing...to meet backorders. What a fine revolver that was...ahead of its time. I only wish the .45 Colt were more widely used/distributed...but will go that way again some day...because it really is the best hammer.

Why the off-center aiming point...though I think I know...

Handgun ammo from a handgun has the trajectory of an old cannon ball pretty much when used for extream range plinking. With the 115gr 9MM ball plinking stuff (winchester white box) I will aim about 40 yards high and about 40 Yards to the right (from the target) with adjustments for local windage . With that hold I can hit a gong on our range that is exactly 360 meters from the line. I can hit it after extensive practice about 6 out of 10 with the rest close enough to make a critter or criminal think twice about sticking around and bothering "me". Now that is from a handgun (BHP) barrel and not such as a rifle barrel. Friends of mine have the Lever guns in 357 Mag that make such shots really easy. Thus that is also a good combination caliber for trekking in the bushes unless of course your local food chain dictates a greater need for stopping bigger critters.

As of late I'm facsinated by by Randy Garretts hammerhead line of dangerous game ammo for the 44 mag. I have a 500 linebaugh Ruger Bisley that IMHO would and could be adapted to a lever gun to make a perfect lightweight combo for regions that host such critters.

But the Garrett 44 mag ammo is on the outter edge of what is possible with that round IMHO and the only handgun I'd use it in is my Ruger redhawk or a Bisley Super Blackhawk. He says the Dan Wesson and I beleive the Taurus raging bull will handle it also but clearly says do not use a S&W Mod 29 for his ammo.

I still think a 5 inch Ruger Redhawk, stainless with hogue soft rubber monogrips in 44 mag with that ammo and a Ruger bolt gun , "stainless" Model 77-44 in 44 magnum would be a perfect woods/ranch rig where a 400 yard shot on a varmint is needed but a close stopping round for defense is required.

One other experiment I'm trying to think thru is using my cut down 45-70 brass for a 45 handgun caliber. I think 475 linebaugh handgun and the 45-70 could use the same bullet. Thus my reloading for plinking or hunting will give me the caliber that begins with 4 that I strive to keep with most of my handguns and rifles.

Lots of rambling but thats just some of my ideas. BTW that Umberti is a keeper. Colt has taken to outsourcing to umberti for their super expensive SAA line parts.......alledgedly to date it's just parts........but I have taken to buying either the Ruger vaquero line or the US Patent Firearms which resides in the old colt factory. I have a pair of USPF Bisley Colt clones that goes to cowboy shoots with my original Winchester 92 takedown sporting rifle in 44-40 calibers. Real accurate and very fine handguns from USPF.

Stay Safe Muttly !

Great news/info. as usual from you. My .44 is a 6" and .357 is 4 3/4", both brass gripframes, casehardened frames. Beautiful, really. I didn't know about firearms still being made under the Colt Dome...so I am curtailing my grief. I would brood horribly when I passed its broken windows on my way to Mass. for work.

Yes...leverguns or other rifles in pistol calibers are attractive to me, and I plan on owning some. May even pick up a .30-30 again. Although the coyotes are of shootin' interest...swarming around the livestock hereabouts...there are also big cats, which concern me most...and I wonder about the .38's being enough...considering one shot in defense is all that I expect time for, if it comes to that. The large one I encountered outside my front door was fearless...an unnerving experience. Of course, I "chased" him anyway (I ran, he calmly sauntered), once I had my shotgun! He obviously knew who had the innate advantage barring firearms.

Uh-oh...I just talked myself into the "4" principle again. Round and round...trying to squeeze the last drop out of the wrong, but popular thing. I face the truth, facts now, and proceed chastened. Even the "4" family works on 2-legged varmints better than the "3" family...so I now formally give up on my quest to attenuate that chasm.

Fun and elucidating tail-chasing, though!

LOL........:o)

That's whats kewl about the everlasting quest for the perfect caliber, firearm and combination thereof . It's not possible to complete that goal. Trust me.....been trying for years. It started from and old copy of Mel Tappins (sp?) Survival Guns and has went south from there.

I've seen Eskimos and Bedouins with old .303 enfields get it done in fine form. Indians in South America, use a single shot topper 12 gauge for all their needs which includes some very large threats from big old kittens. Rangers in Africa use the FN to take lion and poacher alike. Albeit I have seen Winchester Model 70s with teeth marks completly through the mag floor plate I'd rather have a 460 Weatherby Mag vs 7.62Nato . But they make do just fine.

Hardcorp trappers and hunters use a simple .22 handgun to dispatch their game in most cases....... so depending on ones local needs I'd think a caliber with long range and a handgun of common caliber is something to "not" even try. My new stainless (inox) Ruger Number 1 in 45-70 will buck the wind with even the lightest of bullet weights for long range yote games, I have a 1.5x5X Leupold on it with QD Warne mounts and have recently had the grip cap modified to hold a New England Custom Guns # 100 peep sight that I use a Warne Inc adjustable diopter on in place of the original.

If the rugged chunk of optics from Leupold fails me I can pop it off quickly and replace it with the NECG peep that stays zeroed just fine. A simple stock sock w/ 9 spare rounds and a Uncle Mikes neoprene and nylon web sling makes it a fine rig for all I do around here. I have decided to have a Pachmyer Decelerator or maybe one of the new limbsaver recoil pads added as the Garrett hammerheads are stout.....It has more felt recoil than my 460 Weatherby Mag Tropical # 1 (rechambered from 458 Win). I suspect most of that is weight of the rifle of course. The little Number 1 ,45-70, is real light as the big tropical is like hauling 12 pounds of lead pipe around. I'm also experimenting with after market "hangers" that are key to accuracy with regards to the Ruger Number 1 rifles. Still tossing that around though.....:o)

The 45-70 has filled all my hunting and remote wheeling , camping and fishing needs thus far and the handgun I carry is selected based on the threat locally from 2 or 4 legged critters and worst case scenerio possible. Aside from a dangerous game backup handgun of the DA/SA versions I'll toss a small 357 Mag snub TiLite S&W in my pocket as a camp gun or to carry CHL/CCW style in the local resturant or in and out of the motel/hotels while on my hunting road trips.

Just more rant and rage from me in the aforementioned quest for the perfect doitall !.....

Stay Safe !

Yep, ol' Mel did it to me at a tender age, too. Now I am permanently ruined !

Having lots of fun, though !

My Alaskan pal wants a No.1...so what is the accuracy consideration?...I want to tell him. He uses a .357-6" Blackhawk from a famous Guide family...traded his .41 he couldn't hit with....the .357 collected a large freezer-filler every year, and was bear-protection. It's who you are...can do..again.

He said the 6.5 Swede has a good reputation there...not the .458. The .45-70 is great, though. Muttly must have, of course.

I spent most of my armed time in cities...so am now modifying my expectations for trouble..survival. Using what actually works is now better than being able to re-supply what does not. I am glad I had this experience, as it rounds things out, combined with my current needs. So...here come Mister .45 back in my life. Only no shortie barrel this time. I couldn't hit anything with my Officers...and sold it in disgust. I suppose I'll just continue with my SAA training...and proceed to go nuts about which rifle when...of course ! I have settled on the 3" 12 ga., so can move on from there. It works well for me.

HANDGUNS FOR FUN, RIFLES FOR REAL - Clint Smith

"This is American Handgunner Magazine. In one hundred and-some pages there are a bunch of ads for everything from knives to plastic grips. Hell’s-fire, there was even an ad to change your pistol into a rifle. But in the whole magazine there were only two ads for rifles, real rifles. Folks, without putting a hole in your balloon, maybe we need to wake up and smell reality. Handguns are concealable; they can sometimes win a fight if used effectively. Handguns work best when you remember to carry one of size and substance regardless of whether or not it is comfortable to wear. Handguns are a tool designed to respond to a fight someone else starts and when you have no viable route of withdrawal — or escape.

We are not talking about choices. If there was a choice to be made we should choose to leave the area of contact. If there is nothing but a handgun available — or if it was your personal choice — then being mediocre with it is not good enough. And, if there was in fact going to be a fight with no option for withdrawal, a rifle is a better choice and more effective.

But then, handguns are truly at their best when they are used to fight your way to a rifle. A rifle you should not have put down in the first place. Play with handguns — fight with rifles. Period."

Agree with Clint on the never bring a handgun to a fight if ya have a 12 gauge or a good rifle.

The Swedish Mauser 6.5x55 is one of my favorites too. I have a custom 96 Mauser and a Sako Finn Lite in that caliber. Ya either love it or hate it but with a fixed power 8X scope it sings and puts meat in the pot.

Tell yer buddy that if he gets a ruger get the stainless version of whatever caliber he chooses. As he'll confirm ...weather up there is harsh on blued firearms and especially RUGER blue steel. I had a Winchester , Ruger and a Sako when I was stationed up there and could watch rust form on the Ruger while the other two if properly maintained were just fine. Rugers blue jobs just won't hold up to such as I experienced it. My stainless Number 1 was treated badly during some recent mud bogging and wheeling where it rode in a rack that allowed it to get plenty of exposure to dirt mud and such. I really didn't even get to detail clean it for about a week so all I could do was just wash it off with a hose and run a patch and some WD-40 that I had in the tool box over it. It was left in the rain and such and when I got home had to fly off to work for 30 days in different state.

Came home, opened the safe to go to the range and saw the little 45-70 and remembered it's rough duty.....and no bath.

Worked the action, smooth as expected from a number 1 and then took it to the range with me. Got home and detail stripped it and was really expecting some surface rust on something....anything..... but nothing. Not one spot.

I can not recommend highly enough the new ruger stainless number 1 in 45-70 to meet/meat all of a hunters needs in the lower 48 or Alaska. One other rig I have seen used up there is the Tar-Hunt series of modified 12 gauge pumps and their own boltgun designs that use 12 gauge ammo. Saw a show on the killin channel last week where thats all one hunter used was the Tar-Hunt modified Remington 870 pump. He took Bear , Moose and Caribou with it using lightfield slugs. Was impressive to watch and see.........

I like the 45-70 caliber because of it's wide assortment of possible uses as I do the 30 caliber. I recently came across a Remington 300 Ultra Mag Sendero SF deal that was too good to pass up. A buddy was getting a divorce and was dumping his guns before the wifes lawyers got em. I normally stick with 30-06 or 300 Win mag for 30 calibers but am playing around with loads for this now. It seems to prefer the 180 Nosler Partition Commercial loads to I'm tweeking that data to see how much accuracy I can milk from it. Very nice out of the box rifle....Albeit a push feed.

Oh Well gotta go fix stuff for my favorite sibling so I'm off to the Big City for a few hours.....

Stay Safe !

Yes...me go hammer some rusty nails out of scrap lumber..see what I can salvage for the new/old chicken coop...

..he says .358 Win has good rep., and people trust the 12 for protection against bears, especially if you blow their face off with 00 first...gives you a fighting chance, perhaps..but also says .357 was most powerful handgun going for years...and still does the job, until you believe it won't! Not to say .4- isn't a whole lot better...but seems anything good from a long barrel, placed right, has enough steam to do it. I'm going to see how much use I can get out of my '06s an 8mm's next, but know I'll be back in the .300 Win. as soon as I can...only have clearer opinions of what configuration works best for me...like Controlled Round feeding. Do like the single shots now, but haven't owned one. Annoying in a shotgun, on running game though. Also permanent choke...but a rifle...yes.

Just wanted to close this missive with a point or two, and a link:

http://www.bob-munden.com/index.htm
(See the Founding Fathers section)

When all is accounted for...as Tom Gresham says about handguns, paraphrased..."don't choose to protect your life with any caliber that doesn't begin with a 4"...unless it is a .357.

That stands. The problem with the 9mm...a .38...unless loaded to magnum velocity (when it only works in revolvers!)...needs post-impact "controlled" (you hope) expansion bullets...nothing to count on (ask a forensic pathologist). Drive it HARD (.357 level) and almost anything will perform effectively. This is why Squantos and I carry little .357's...especially when in concealment-advisable situations...which the criminals know too...so that's when "IT" happens, statistically. We do this even though we are "big bore" proponents. I am a "heavy bullet" proponent...but the 9mm doesn't have the steam to drive even a 147 gr. effectively, consistently. It is a borderline cartridge, always. Face it, and know what you have. This is why I ONLY use a gun that is famous for feeding everything. The, for all it's faults, Hi-Power. At least it will SHOOT the deficient rounds.

Our discussion has been about trying to get serious (see lethal) performance out of a 9mm/.357 round, and at extreme range. This is a hobby, and not to be relied upon (but good to know about) in a real, killers-in-sight situation. We have killed "things," and automatically give it a margin for error...on the side of better-with-more...but it would hurt if you can hit with this too. I hope most of us have not known what a last-ditch situation that can be, and is. Go with more...and "more" is unpleasant up close...but works where it hits. If it ain't nasty in the hand...he/it'll kill you...especially since you shot at it. Not a friendly gesture.

So, don't shoot if you don't have to...but if you do...do it with finality. Be determined. Whatever you have...drive it in where you want it to go. Don't think about the gun...FORCE it to do what you want. Your determination will make it work. No kidding. As a very young boy, I knew someone who had to, and DID shoot a caribou in Alaska, in the 1940's, with a .38, when her dog-team failed. She cut it open, crawled inside, and was rescued the next day. She MADE it work.

So...own a shotgun, a decent common-caliber rifle, and then have a few pistols. The .357 revolver most-always works, as a cartridge, and a mechanism. The .45 stops pretty well too, but with a complicated mechanism...but is a comfort to those who learn to use them, starting with a 1911. The 9mm is perhaps better for potting small game, shooting flatter...may be easier to find ammo for in a pinch...but you'll NEED it...because it's record as a stopper is poor...LE/military use these days not at all withstanding.

Muttly out.

"I will be going back to keeping my Beretta (.380 Auto, 13 round (StarFire Jacked Hollow Point) magazine) in my briefcase starting tomorrow. I have a 'concealed' holster when the situation warrants it."

There are numerous folks who make snapshut plastic containers. These are ideal for carrying small flashlights with your handguns plus your holster and ammo in business briefcases.

I like the light grey ones because they don't any attract attention from the bystanders. I guess they just presume that you will have your extra calclator and pens inside it.

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