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1. It was still awful. I never want to see nayone murdered like that again.

Well it wasn't supposed to be pleasant. LOTR isn't a happy story filled with butterflies and silly skiping. It's about the ultimate battle of good vs evil and some nasty stuff happens along the way.

3. ok fine, Theoden was really great, he kind of held everything together. I wish there had been more time for him to 'explore it' it kind of seemed like a lost thread.

A lot of characters kind of get lost in the shuffle, that's because there's about 20 "main" characters in the story, with the running total currently standing at 200 minutes that's 10 minute per important character scatter throughout the 3 movies. Most of them probably deserved at least 20 minutes but if PJ had done that it would be a six parter and we'd be arguing about the first half of TTT right now... not that I'm against that but it was hard enough for PJ to shake 300 mil out to make the movies no way he could have gotten 600 mil.

6. well that was ok anyway. It just made me want to laugh instead of feeling the the fate of Middle Earth hangs in the balance.

A little laughter isn't necessarily a bad thing, breaking the tension in a movie is as important as building the tension. Keep it too high for too long and the audience burns out (my wife actually thought the movie was too tense)

7. I guess it also showed more importance to win the battle.

I think of it as more of a nod to realism, in real battle the non-combatants hunker down and pray and most importantly they stay the hell out of the way.

8. She wasn't supposed to be a hero. Pj femenised her role.

She killed the witch king in the books too. PJ personalized her role and made it more sensible. It also makes it more understandable when she takes up with Faromir. The role of Eowyn in the books really showed that Tolkien didn't grock women too well.

9. your right, I hated how Aragorn was a wimp when it came to that. besides Elrond didn't say Sauron was killing Arwen, just that she would die if he failed. which was true.

Exactly, that's an important part of the Strider/ Aragorn arc (even in the books, signified by him going through a name change), he's into the Ranger life because it has no responsibilities. He hangs out in the forest, practices his archery, every now and then goes to Rivendell for a bath and some quality time with the elves, always very careful to stay far away from Gondor and the responsibility it represents in his life.

10. Will you read the chapter in shelobs lair? it was so sweet and hobbitish. I just loved it and It was done differently, not that it was that awful, but it wasn't what i was hoping for and the replacement wasn't . I know it would have been awful if they had done it word for word, but fotr and ttt had the same overall plot, themes, and key scenes, i felt like rokt skimped on themes and key scenes portrayed correctly.

It was sweet and hobbitish in the books and scary and dramatic in the movie, I see no problem here. Movies have different needs than books. I don't think ROTK skimped at all, PJ just saw different scenes as key than you did. I expected that from early on when PJ made it clear the scouring was out, I always saw the scoring as a key to the story PJ didn't. If I could get people to cough up 300 mil to make a trilogy that had no good reason to expect success I could focus 90% of the third movie on the scouring if I wanted to.

12. Oh, ok so he finally forgave Faramir when he was dead, and but in his own twisted way had to do all this crazy stuff because he was crazy. Maybe to prove to him self that he was a good father and he was justified.

No, when he had the all important moment of clarity (seeing that in fact Faromir was alive) Denethor remembered his love for his son (just like Gandalf predicted), unfortunately at that same moment Denethor is on fire and also remembers all the horrible things he's done to his son (he's sent Faromir off to die like 3 times) and his country. Listen to what Denethor says when he "finds out" Faromir is dead (right after the horse brings him back), he does that stuff not to be a good father but to fail at everything, he says it straight up that his line has ended and ended in failure un able even to protect the nation they were to be stewards of. Then he orders everybody to abondon their posts and flee. He's a guy that somewhere along the lines decided he wasn't up to the task (probably when he learned of Boromirs death) and is now showing the world just how horrible he truly is.

15. ok fine that was also necessary after all your supposed to think he is dying. still it was icky.

It should be icky. Spiders are icky, most people don't like them, more so when Tolkien was writing the books. They're one of the creatures in this world that give people the heaby jeabies just by being alive (along with snakes and bats).

19. Alright PJ went for the bad guy is stupid so good can win. I think thats ok, i'll have to see it again.

It also give Merry a chance to some real heroism, he's seen a Nazgul up close before, and yet he's willing to stab the thing in the leg drawing it's attention in a desperate and probably doomed attempt to save Eowyn's life.

21. it wasn't as good as it could have been. Wait what was I expecting!

That's not what I said. There's was TONS of tenderness and love, it was EXACTLY as good as it could have been. You're original statement that there was no tendderness and love was simply WRONG at it's face. The tenderness and love was there, built, established, then got crushed under the evil of the ring.

22. Yea like how Frodo said can you protect me from your self? Like to deepen the plot.

I'm not sure about deepening the plot, it's simply something a movie of this type needs to have, especially near the end. The good guys need to be under constant threat in the eyes of the audience, even if that threat is false if has to be there at that point in a dramatic movie. If twenty minute before the climax everybody in the audience thinks the good guys now have a cake walk and the ending is merely a technicality you've just lost your audience.

23. Didn't know there was a second wind.

Don't watch a lot of sports huh? Looked to me exactly like a hockey player in the 5th over time, guy is leaning on his knees trying not to fall over dead before the faceoff then he gets the puck and streaks down the ice trying to score.

24. It made me want to laugh! I have no idea how the could have done it better but it shouldn't have made me laugh(i wasn't the only one who thought that)

Didn't make me laugh. I think you're just giggle happy.

25. right, but it was sick. It's like PJ had to add all this sick stuff just because instead of doing it another way. Just because he could.

It was the right thing to do. Gollum was a sick fellow and had been for a long time. It was the final demonstration of the horrible power of the ring. PJ was getting the message across, not just being sick for fun, some messages are unpleasant in their delivery those are usually the important ones in life.

26. perhaps it showed how strong he really was. Since Sauron has no character devlopment. In fact its only the ring that really has a character.

I think it was primarily catharsis for the audience. Kind of like having Roy Schieder take the time to say "smile you son of a bitch" before blowing up the shark, give the audience something to cheer.

27. Did the tower collasp into the ground too? then it would have been like Sauron killed them instead of unexplained holes.

I don't think we see what the tower collapsed into, the black gate and other fortification winds up in the ground though.

28. fine they should have just skipped the whole thing. and skipped to Frodo in bed. It was kind of like when they brought him into Rivendell, that was weird too.

If you skip the whole thing then how do they get rescued? You can't leave the hero of your peice stranded on a rock island in the lava then put him in a comfy bed in Gondor, that would be really bad story telling.

30. it was still funny.

It was a covered wagon, nothing funny about it. You don't live that far north of me, surely you've seen covered wagons before.

31.if this orc was dresses like a hobbit, was cleaner, lighter skinned, less evil he would resemble Bilbo. I think

don't forget shorter. In other words if you took this orc and took away everything that made him an orc he'd be an elf and then if you shrunk him he'd be a hobbit. Which isn't that far off from the history of Middle Earth any way.

32. the rest of elf country didn't look fake.

I think Rivendell looked about the same. The CGI could have been crisper but i get the feeling they were trying to put a dream like quality to the elf places. The the elves really weren't a part of Middle Earth.

33. This has been your best point yet. They did not talk enough about frodo's pain. I wish they had used the actual dialog from the book, "I thought so too once. But I have been too deeply hurt. I tried to save the shire, and it has been saved but not for me, it must often be so. Someone must give them, loose them so that others may keep them." That would have made it better.

The original dialog might have been better. What Frodo said was still pretty powerful, even the second time I saw it I expected him to kill himself right when he was finishing the book, it's just got such a heavy suicide note feel.

I hope you're enjoying the conversation, I certainly am.

I am enjoying it immenisly. I think rotk might actually be worth watching, which is good because its not good to have fotr and ttt and never watch rotk.

1. It is, and i will enjoy the DVD where I won't have to watch it. Oh and one other thing, when I said it was like a horror movie i didn't mean scary but gory and sick. I thoght some scenes could have been handled with out the gore and would have been just as affective.

3. i'd like a six parter. I just thought since there wasn't enough time they should have cut it, and used the time for character devlopment. Like Eomer.

6. it was tense. but I didn't want to laugh there. It was a serious scene, and not supposed to be funny.Although i'm not sure what could have been done.

7. so why were they in the city?

8. I like it in the book better. I think id like to soo this part again before i make another comment about it.

10. All the movies were hardened and not as soft as the books. Which I thought was so great about the hobbits. Merry and Pippin after they were captured in TTT were joking and as T put it 'if you had been listening you would not have known that they had just been in the jaws of death' (not exact words). But I guess it wasn't that way to show how the Ring was killing frodo, kind of turning him into a wraith, without the hobbity sweetness.

12. Ok i understand now. But as someone commented; why is there a need to change who Denethor is simply because it is a movie and not a book? That question was not directed at you. Because they did not ask me weather or not I liked it.

15. I didn't find Shelob scary at all, so I think it was important to show that she was indeed deadly.

19. I always liked merry and it was very good in ROTK how both Merry and Pippin matured.

21. Perhaos thats true. I think id like to see this part again too, before commenting.

22. I don't remember what this was even about. Oh yea How Saruman lied. Um I wish they had made it more clear. After all everyone dosen't have freepers to explain it all. ;)Thanks.

23. As long as it can actually happen.

24. I was not! i think I should see this part again too.

25. I think the message could have been delivered just as affective with out having to see it. Who dosen't get that the ring is totally evil and Gollum is hopelessly emmersed in it? Although that scene did drive the point home.

26. true. I think it the eye should have gone through some king of change during its destruction. So it coulod be determined that Sauron was actually being killed.

27. well they had to die some how.

28. I didn't mind the eagles picking him up off the rock, it was the next part that i didn't like.

30. yes and there usually assoiated with Laura and Mary and, going west to find a better life... NNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOO. It wasn't really that bad just slightly shocking.

31. It was shocking to see him so ugly. It was like a different hobbit.

32. I want to see this part again also. But it still had a bad acting (on the part of the elves)and cgi feel to it.