Replies

1. i don't think that was a good enough reason to include the scene, and I think it showed. I think that is why they did it, Smeagol telling Frodo without having to see the murder would have been just as affective without having to watch it. Did you really like that scene?

2. Ok I didn't think of that. thanks.

3. true but It was like with the Ents not going to war. Just a little change to see if he can get the 'already read the books audience' to be in supence.

4. your right

5. again

6. Frodo having his finger bitten off didn't have anything to do with him being corrupted.

7. Staying out of the way. Like leaving? Then they could have showed their joyful return and Aragorn as their King. Like leaving and coming back to a new world.

8. Yes, but it was not the same as the book, and I didn't like it. It waist necessary. Eowyn fighting out of despair is better, in my opinion.

9. True, but it didn't have to be dramatized the way it was. Having Arwen killed by orcs or sauron when Rivendell is eventually over run is just a affective.

10. It should have been. Part of my disappointment, and after all the revews it got about how close to the book it stayed.

11. It was like a horror movie.

12. Ok I can see it! But then why did Gandalf say your father loves you Faramir he will remember it before the end? Uh another forgotten line with no conclusion.

13. I agree 100% with you there, again never thought of it

14. But, everyone must feel the same as Me. (entitlement moment) Ok I'm better now.

15. it seemed longer, I closed my eyes

16. really are you sure?

17. Ok I loved that scene and now it makes science with the rest of the movie.

18. Yes and they went through the walls. Beware the Listerine sea

19. watching it I felt like he could have killed her any second he felt like it, and then didn't even notice before she stabbed him in the face.

20. not real time ok I can handle that

21. Are you agreeing?

22. i just didn't like the scene, but it was necessary to show some of their danger

23. It made me think how bizarre it was instead of Wow Frodo is so brave thats all.

24. It was longer than 6 seconds, maybe not as long as I thought

25. He wasn't showing any pain, even thought the precious is being destroyed, and it was really sick. I felt like alot of rotk was turned into a horror movie.

26. It was weird. I thought Pj was trying to see if he could get the book crowd to be surprised

27. something had to be done. I thought it should have been like in the prologue in fotr, just king of falling down and dying, I know he wasn't as strong, but it would have been better.

28. it did but it was weird!! I don't like watching people sleep and it was too long. Wouldn't you have rather seen the eagled flying back to gondor and had a nice aerial shot of the battle and the city? i would have

29. ok fine

30. No he didn't it looked like a prairie schooner

31. he did too. It reminded me of one on a trading card I have. I'll see if I can find it.

32.The buildings were ok, the ship and sunset were not. I don't see why they couldn't have built a real ship and sailed it into a real sunset. I would have paid extra

33. He cried during the rest of the three films. He was almost gleeful to be rid of them.

I deleted everything where we agreed, but I kept the numbers for reference purposes.

1. i don't think that was a good enough reason to include the scene, and I think it showed. I think that is why they did it, Smeagol telling Frodo without having to see the murder would have been just as affective without having to watch it. Did you really like that scene?

One of the first rules of movie making: exposition is DULL action is not. Never make exposition when action can do the same thing. Having Smeagol tell Frodo would have been boooooring, and also would have planted seeds of doubt in Frodo's head ("yeah Frodo of corse I like you and all and I'm really happy to be helping you out on this quest, here let me tell you about my first encounter with the ring when I strangled my dear friend Deagol, don't worry though I'm not trying to kill you"). I did like the scene, I think it served a very useful dramatic purpose of of making Smeagol again a sympathetic character only to rip it away.

3. true but It was like with the Ents not going to war. Just a little change to see if he can get the 'already read the books audience' to be in supence.

It's not about keeping the people that have already read the book in suspense. It's about giving each character an arc so they can develop as people and allow tension to build and release properly in the movie. The holy grails of movie-dom are pacing and character development.

6. Frodo having his finger bitten off didn't have anything to do with him being corrupted.

Frodo losing his finger has EVERYTHING to do with him being corrupted. If the ring doesn't corrupt him he doesn't spend all that time standing there not throwing the thing in which give Golum the chance to get in there, without the corruption he never puts the ring on for Golum to bite it off. Without the corruption he walks out of that cave with 10 fingers.

7. Staying out of the way. Like leaving? Then they could have showed their joyful return and Aragorn as their King. Like leaving and coming back to a new world.

They did show their joyful return AFTER he returned. The streets were crowded with civilian before the fight (no Aragorn) and after the fight (with Aragorn). The only time there was a lack of women and children visible in the streets of Minas Tirith was DURING the fight (mostly no Aragorn).

8. Yes, but it was not the same as the book, and I didn't like it. It waist necessary. Eowyn fighting out of despair is better, in my opinion.

I actually never liked that in the books. People fighting out of despair don't fight well, people fighting hoping to die fight even worse. In order for her to be heroic in the end it makes more sense if she's fighting for the same reason the men are fighting.

9. True, but it didn't have to be dramatized the way it was. Having Arwen killed by orcs or sauron when Rivendell is eventually over run is just a affective.

Except of course Rivendell isn't eventually over run so that scene could never possibly happen. It was a simple matter of Elrond trying to convince Aragorn to take the mantle that was his. Aragorn's defense mechanism was his love of elves in general and one elf in particular, Elrond drove it all home "we're leaving, she's not, if you don't become the king you were born to be she'll die, stop being a pansy, here's the sword, go do what we both know you have to and save my daughter's life you shlub"

10. It should have been. Part of my disappointment, and after all the revews it got about how close to the book it stayed.

No it shouldn't have been a word for word translation. Being a full time geek I hang out on the convention circuit, I'm friends with a few authors some of them have also written scripts (TV but the ideas hold), one of the first things they'll tell you is that the things you do to make a good book are the same list of things you AVOID to make a good script. The mediums are completely different and a word for word translation would have made for three terrible unwatchable movies (actually probably 6, 200 minutes isn't nearly enough for that many words).

11. It was like a horror movie.

It was a scary part in a fantasy movie. Movies other than horror are allowed to have scary parts.

12. Ok I can see it! But then why did Gandalf say your father loves you Faramir he will remember it before the end? Uh another forgotten line with no conclusion.

Not at all, Gandalf has been around a while and knows how people work, he knows that somewhere inside Denethor loves his child and given long enough will remember that. And he wound up being right on the money, when he pops Denethor and shakes him out of his psychosis and Denethor's love for his son comes flooding back and he flees from the horror of what he's done (killed one son, tried a few times to kill the other and doomed the empire of Gondor and possibly the entire race of man).

15. it seemed longer, I closed my eyes

That's called dramatic tension. By holding that close shot and using very little sound PJ took away the audiences innate time keeping ability and makes the scene seem longer than it is. I cheated, because of work and personal schedules I saw ROTK both wednesday and thursday and read your stuff in between, I did some second counting during a few of the scenes.

16. really are you sure?

Short fight, but for this PJ used another movie trick: lots of eb and flow and many fast cuts. By having it cycle quickly between Sam getting the upper hand and Shelob getting the upper leg and back again it makes it seem like a lot happened and so that must take a long time. In the end I think Sam made 5 or 6 swings of the sword and two kicks at Shelob's eyes.

18. Yes and they went through the walls. Beware the Listerine sea

chuckle.

19. watching it I felt like he could have killed her any second he felt like it, and then didn't even notice before she stabbed him in the face.

He could have killed her anytime, except he's a bad guy and likes to do things mean so he decided to choke her to death thus giving Merry time to stab him. Bud guys must always pause at the stupidest possible moment, it's a rule even Tolkien didn't violate.

21. Are you agreeing?

No I think there was plenty of tenderness and love in that scene, right up until Frodo found out Sam had the ring and the addiction reared it's ugly head again.

22. i just didn't like the scene, but it was necessary to show some of their danger

Yeah it brought back Sauron as a threat, at that point with Suaron looking the other way and the orcs gone it looks like clear sailing for Frodo and Sam, swinging the eye around says "no it isn't clear sailing", and for those that haven't read the books it's even better because it creates a false threat since at that point Sauron is no longer a threat to them but Gollum is

23. It made me think how bizarre it was instead of Wow Frodo is so brave thats all.

Made me think he'd gotten his second wind and hope had been restored

24. It was longer than 6 seconds, maybe not as long as I thought

I might have been counting slow, could have been 8, of course with the cut away the scene becomes longer because there's a presumption of simultaneous action. Another movie trick.

25. He wasn't showing any pain, even thought the precious is being destroyed, and it was really sick. I felt like alot of rotk was turned into a horror movie.

the precious wasn't being destroyed, not yet anyway. He was long dead before the heat even made the writing appear. It was sick, Gollum was sick. He was dying with precious in his hand, the only thing he'd really wanted for hundreds of years was his in his final moments. Really if you've ever known drug addicts Gollum and Frodo in the last two movies are super spot on portrayals, I've seen those looks I've heard those words.

26. It was weird. I thought Pj was trying to see if he could get the book crowd to be surprised

Suprised by what? He was just holding the dramatic moment. Almost 10 hours worth of movie was leading up to the point of finally knocking that tower down, when you make people wait that long to knock a building down you don't just obliterate it and move on, you give them a chance to cheer

27. something had to be done. I thought it should have been like in the prologue in fotr, just king of falling down and dying, I know he wasn't as strong, but it would have been better.

But then he'd being doing the same thing twice, a real no-no in movie magic. Also that was how Sauron didn't really die, by cleaving a hole in the earth and swallowing Sauron's works and minions it showed he was really dead this time.

28. it did but it was weird!! I don't like watching people sleep and it was too long. Wouldn't you have rather seen the eagled flying back to gondor and had a nice aerial shot of the battle and the city? i would have

We'd already had aerial shots of the areas of battle, why show the same thing again.

30. No he didn't it looked like a prairie schooner

It looked like the same wagon with the cover on, most wagons are convertables you know.

31. he did too. It reminded me of one on a trading card I have. I'll see if I can find it.

Not on a bet, if nothing else he was dressed to nice to be an orc.

32.The buildings were ok, the ship and sunset were not. I don't see why they couldn't have built a real ship and sailed it into a real sunset. I would have paid extra

But you don't have the option to pay extra, they don't set movie prices by the movie. Why go through all the trouble of building a long boat for one scene when almost everything else in elf country was CGI.

33. He cried during the rest of the three films. He was almost gleeful to be rid of them.

He wasn't gleeful to get rid of his friends, he was gleeful to get rid of his pain. Remember he was still suffering from the stab of the witch king (four years later) and that's one of the things the elves were going to cure. Frodo had seen the best and worst Middle Earth had to offer, part of the worst stabbed him and nearly turned him into a wraith, another part of the worst had bit him finger off. That's one of the things that was being established in Bag End, that Frodo still hadn't emotionally recovered and couldn't emotionally recover in the Shire, he's seen too much and been wounded too deeply. If you see it again pay close attention to Frodo's monologue as he's finishing the book, it sounds like a suicide note. Those are the options Frodo has at that point, two ways to end the pain: with the elves and with a rope. Part of his glee is that he's going to end the pain and live.