EPA removes start-stop incentives, ending unpopular red-light engine shut-offs

Citizen Watch Report ^ | Alex

[davikkm]

The Environmental Protection Agency is rolling back fuel economy incentives for start-stop technology, a system that automatically shuts off a car’s engine when stopped at a red light or in traffic. EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin announced the decision, calling the feature a “climate participation trophy” that drivers overwhelmingly dislike. The move marks a significant shift in federal policy, reversing regulations that encouraged automakers to include the system in new vehicles.

Start-stop technology was introduced as part of Obama-era emissions rules, designed to reduce fuel consumption and lower carbon emissions. The system became widespread, with 65 percent of new cars featuring it by 2023. While environmental advocates praised the technology, many drivers found it frustrating, complaining about sluggish acceleration, reduced air conditioning performance, and unnecessary wear on engine components. For years, automakers insisted the system was beneficial, but consumers never bought into it. Now, the government is finally listening.

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TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government
KEYWORDS: autoindustry; automakers; automotive; econuts; epa; startstop; startstoptechnology

[Jonty30]

I know cops didn’t like it, because they were concerned about their car stalling out.

[piasa]

I can’t afford a new car but don’t have any incentive to want one anyway, until most of this craziness is rolled back and automakers can go back to pleasing consumers rather than bureaucrats and leftwing nuts.

[nuconvert]

I end it on my vehicle every time I start it up. Pushing the button to cancel it is simple, but it’s just a little annoying, especially if I forget.

[equaviator]

I rented a Cooper Mini at a FL airport and it had that feature. After driving it for an hour I had the impression that I was supposed to appreciate the vehicle for how it was helping me to save the planet. If it wasn't for the bullshit, I think I would've enjoyed driving it a lot more...That and if it had a manual transmission.

[ProtectOurFreedom]

I had Grol crunching the numbers yesterday. It does a remarkable job framing a problem, making assumptions, doling sensitivity analysis, and calculating results.

I was astounded how this tech adds $800-$1,000 to MSRP. and saves you maybe $100 over five years.

There was higher savings in city stiop and go driving compared to suburban and rural driving, so it is a cross subsidy from rural/suburban to urban drivers.

And that high increase in MSRP really hits the poor and working class people the hardest.

So the whole thing just stinks.

[Fireone]

It’s so easy to disable, a cave man could do it.
But, it should never have been installed in the first place.

[Recompennation]

That’s what we are talking about.
Fire all the so called employees of ours that have in the past dictated what goes into the open ended regulations and how what they write is interpreted.
Deselect the unelect now.

[MV=PY]

They govt could set targets, but it’s meddling when they dictate to manufacturers how to meet them.

Let the free market work.

[Sirius Lee]

and saves you maybe $100 over five years.

When you factor in the extra wear on your engine components your actually losing a lot more in longevity and resale value, not to mention extra maintenance costs.

[IndyTiger]

The first time I experienced this “feature” was in a rental car in Florida. I honestly thought there was something wrong with the car. Why was it stalling out at every stop? I pulled out the owner’s manual and then was able to figure out what was going on. Very annoying. I deliberately bought a 2019 CR-V last year because it was the last year that Hondas did not have this.

[redfreedom]

Similar here. I just hate it. Yes, the button can be pushed, and I do forget. What my wife hates most is all the cussing I do when the engine shuts off.

Our newest is a 2018 F150 just loaded with electronic bells and whistles. That crap has convinced me never to buy another new vehicle, for they only get worse as time progresses.

We have a 1997 Chevy Silverado. It’s so simple and sweet to drive. Just get in it and go. Nothing at all annoying about it. Even my 1952 Dodge M37 is a pleasure to drive compared to the Ford.

[Sacajaweau]

I would be very happy if my car had a little side window, roll down windows and a governor.

[redfreedom]

Great! I’m a cave man, please tell me how to PERMANENTLY disable it on my 2018 F150.

[KarlInOhio]

The thing I hate most about it is that it almost psychicly does the wrong thing if I forget to turn it off. If I come to a stop sign for a one second stop, look and go the engine will turn off. If I get in line at the car wash where I sit for five minutes and then advance one car length it will keep running.

One feature could have removed the pain: retain the setting between starts. The AC stays on or off when I turn off the engine. The cruise control does the same, as do the various traction control settings. Just stay off when I turn it off instead of always turning back on.

[Keyhopper]

Wait until you change the starter, we’ll see how much you save then.😬

[Keyhopper]

I just kick the car in neutral sat the lights.

[Hot Tabasco]

start-stop technology

That's the dumbest piece of technology ever developed. I turn mine off every time I get in the car and when I forget, it never works anyway when I come to a stop.

[rlmorel]

The point isn't that it only takes a push of the finger each time you get into the car to disable it.

The point is, this was foisted on consumers and carmakers by environmental nazis, using our own tax dollars against us, for something that had so little upside that it is laughable, and had so much downside it is astonishing. In addition to being downright dangerous.

And it was all needless. Stupid. The amount of gas it saves you as an individual is non-existent. The danger it puts you in and the cost to you individually is far higher. And it was imposed on us with our own tax money as incentives for manufacturers pencil-necked dickhead Leftists who say that thimble of gas we save over the course of any year adds up to millions of thimbles of gas saved by everyone, the cost to us individually (in wear and tear on batteries, starters, towing costs, and accidents caused by delays pulling into traffic because the damn engine had been shut off by this "feature") be damned.

I personally have despised this "feature" from day one. My battery died on me last summer. This anecdote describes that event, but this is the "cost" in time, money, and emotional wear and tear. If you don't have time to read it, it is only for additional perspective in time, money, and emotional wear and tear, so the statement above is as far as you need to read.

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I cannot stand all the electronic crap they put in cars these days. I have a Subaru Forester, and love the way it feels and drives, but it has all that crap, especially the thing that shuts off the engine when you stop at a light.

Makes me grit my teeth.

Anyway, last summer, I stopped at a red light during rush hour at an extremely busy intersection.

The engine shut off in traffic as designed by this asinine "feature".

When the light changed, I pressed on the accelerator, but...nothing happened. Puzzled, I put the car into park, tried to restart the engine...nothing. And this is a crazy intersection, so...I got out, waved all the cars around me, put up the hood and put my flashers on.

Then, when all the traffic drained, I figured I would push the thing off the side of the road...but...couldn't get it out of park! Then, cars came up behind me, and when the light changed...they all just sat there. I had to point at them, point at my raised hood, and wave them around. I know people are on autopilot going into work sometimes, but I thought "What the hell is the matter with these people?"

I tried using AAA, and they made me use the app on my smartphone to put the request for assistance in, so...I dutifully put the request in through the AAA application, and...everything looked good. So, as I am waiting for a tow, I am standing off to the side. Again, this is a three lane road. Two lanes approaching the light, one lane going the other direction. I was in the middle lane to take a left.

I was not right at the light, I would have been the equivalent of two cars spaces back from the light in the center lane, with a full, clear lane going in the same direction I would have been going, but everyone takes a left, so people kept coming up behind me and just sitting there! So...I kept waving them around.

Finally, a town cop comes over and parks behind me. He asks me if I called for a tow yet, and I explain to him what is going on, and that I am waiting for AAA to send a truck. So he begins directing traffic, waving these people around my car where they have a free and open lane, and I can tell by his body language and facial expression that he is getting frustrated, because HE is behind my car with his lights on, and people are STILL stopping and waiting there.

The cop finally turns to me and says "What the hell is the matter with these people?"...exactly what I had been muttering to myself earlier!

So, the cop asks me when I think AAA is going to arrive, so I go in the app on my phone to see the status, and it says something like "Your request has been cancelled. Please reenter your request." So I said "Screw this." and began casting about for a phone number to call, and finally found one and when I called, got into the hold queue with the "There is a high volume of calls at this time. You are very important to us. Please hold..." and of course the damned stupid music.

I tell the cop they have me on hold, and now it has been almost 45 minutes and the cop says "Let me call a truck. If I call them, they will be here immediately. I can do that right now, but they take cash only. There is an ATM over there." So I said okay.

I had been there now nearly an hour, and the cop about 45 minutes or so, and the whole time, we got to talk as, standing next to me and irritatedly waving cars around his cruiser, we chatted. I really liked him. A middle aged bald guy like myself (Now I am not middle aged, I am a senior citizen!) I asked him what he liked best about his job, and he said "Things like this! Not stressful. Get to talk to people!" He said he had been on the force for 28 years. I actually enjoyed being there and chatting too, even though work was crazy for me at that time.

Finally, the truck showed up, and the guy tried to jump my car. No dice. He told me the battery was dead and needed replacing. He didn't do that, so he suggested I call AAA and have them send a battery guy over. Instead of having him tow me to my house which would have cost a small fortune, I had him tow me about 200 yards away to the parking lot of the bank with the ATM, which he did.

As he unloaded my car and we talked, I mentioned I couldn't get my car out of park, and he said "Ah. You gotta do this..." and showed me a little hole in front of my shifter that had a plastic cover. He pried off the cover, and said I had to stick something down there to get it out of park. When he asked if I had a pen I handed him one, and he pried off the cover and stuck the ink cartridge in the hole.

Then it slipped out of his fingers, and he couldn't get it out! Fortunately, I am one of those Swiss Army knife guys, and I thankfully had tweezers in the knife and we were able to retrieve it because it wasn't that far down! Whew. I had visions of that ink cartridge getting enmeshed in something and needing to have the console removed!

I had to wait about another hour and a half for the AAA guy to show up. In that time, I pulled a folding chair out of my car (I always keep two there) and set up my laptop with a hot spot and went to work, even though I could see the building I worked in about a quarter of a mile away.

Finally, the AAA guy showed up and managed to get the car started by leaving the battery charger hooked up for a longer period of time. While the car was running, he began to disconnect the battery, and I interrupted him with "Hey! The car is still running!" and he said patiently (but not unkindly) "That is how we do it these days. That way, you don't lose all your car settings." Wow. Made sense to me...never thought of that.

All's well that ends well. I had to buy a new little plastic cap for that hole in the console because the tow truck guy lost that (I looked all over inside and outside the vehicle) but it wasn't expensive, a couple of bucks.

But I developed a new found hatred for all that electronic crap on the car. If the engine hadn't shut off due to that idiotic gas-saving thing, I would have gotten to work, and been none the wiser until I came out to go home. But at that point, I wouldn't be in the middle of the road at rush hour, and I wouldn't have had to shell out for a 200 yard tow that cost me $90, which I would have to submit to AAA to get reimbursed for.

So, yeah. I hate all that electronic stuff.

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Thing is-my car battery probably wouldn't have died if not for this execrable "feature" imposed on us.

But even if it it had died, I would have made it all the way into work because I wouldn't have shut the engine off until I pulled into a parking space where I worked, less than a mile away.

I would have been able to work productively and not missed hours of work.

And I wouldn't have had to spend money to get my car towed out of the middle of a busy road after inconveniencing all those drivers, and taking up several hours of a cop's time.

This idiotic "feature" is typical of what Leftists do. Typical.

[Nifty]

With some cars, this is easy to disable. With some cars, it isn’t. Or you might have the option to disable it every time you startup. PITA but eventually you can get used to doing that.