I Uncovered the HIDDEN History of Palestine, What I Learned Is ABSOLUTELY INSANE!

The Traveling Clatt ^ | 12/2/25

[Eleutheria5]

Palestinian "nationhood" and Fun with Flags (thanks, Sheldon Cooper)

[Eli Kopter]

They are not fake. They existed as part of the Roman Syrian Province in the early 1st Millenia (Syria Palaestina 132–390 CE) and during the Partition of Palestine (1923-1948), although they never had their own country. The “Territories” are no more a country than Syria Palaestina was.

[Eli Kopter]

Great video and worth the watch, even for someone who lives on and off in Israel. Maybe we can get this guy interviewed on Israeli TV (maybe not but worth a try).

[Eleutheria5]

His pronunciation of the Arabic words is impeccable. If he’s not a native speaker, it’s doubly impressive.

[Eli Kopter]

I agree. Having dealt with many through the years, I thought he might have been Syrian decent or maybe a Samarian transplant. Not Lebanese because they are not arab, But maybe Northern Israel. He doesn’t have the strong ‘guttaral’ sound that a Saudi Arabian, but could be Jordanian descent. What is your guess?

[Wuli]

In sum:

The “Palestinian State” movement is the tiny, tiny leftover child of the Pan-Arab Nationalist movement, begun in the post-Ottoman Empire era, hoping to forge a single Pan-Arab nations. The “Palestinians” (Arabs residing at the time in Palestine) joined with leading Arab nations like Syria and Egypt, believing they were joining a Pan-Arab movement that would also kick the Jews out. But, all their big backers had a change of heart, became nationalists in favor of their own nations, as they were met with defeat after defeat in war against Israel.

The “Palestinians”, politically, are the abandoned step children of the now defunct “Pan-Arab” movement.

[maddog55]

They’re fake. Palestinians are just unwanted Arabs from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Jordan and others. Yasser Arafat was a PLO, PLA terrorist that started this crap and he was Egyptian. Nobody wants them now because of what they’ve done.

Being a Palestinian would be like me saying I’m a North American and claim the east or west coast as my homeland.

[Eleutheria5]

Well, he fully pronounces the “shadda,” such as in “Muham-mad”. I don’t think that’s colloquial. Colloquially, that’s always neglected, and instead they say “MuhAmad,” and he also is careful to say “Maqaa” instead of the anglicized “Mecca”. I think he’s had some education, perhaps in Madrassa. Don’t know dialects as well as you, so can’t venture an opponion on that score.

[Eli Kopter]

Had dealt with some arabs near the Lebanese border whose dialect is similar to this fellow’s. The subtle difference is that they are much less gutteral and more distinct. But I am certainly no expert. They did correct me though when I called them arab. They are not, and do not consider themselves as such. When I dealt with them, they were mostly Christian in that part of the country, no doubt conquered by the Crusaders or Catholics for a millennia. They were converted like local Jews - convert or die. I am not a fan of the Crusades as I believe the real motive was to rid Israel of the Jews as well as the Arabs. However, I sure saw the evidence of their conquest in my studies. One of the most interesting is Nimrod’s Castle, which is on the road to Mt. Hermon. Also, Acco (Acre), where the Prison holds a fascinating history that is well documented. It takes a while to peel back the Arab period to see the Crusader influence. Forgive me. I am reminiscing. I thought about living in Israel permanently, where I had many friends, but it wasn’t meant to be.

[Eleutheria5]

Lebanon was originally envisioned as an eastern Christian homeland, under French auspices, just as Israel was meant to be a Jewish homeland under British control. What happened instead, continues to unfold. There is a big Christian community in Haifa of Arabic speakers. I have no idea which denomination. But every store in their neighborhood is closed on Sunday.

Crusades were really about consolidating Pope Pius IX’s powers, I think.

[Menes]

If I remember correctly, most Christians in Haifa are Maronites or Melkite Greek Catholics; there are Eparchs, i.e. bishops, of both of these confessions, who maintain their cathedrals and ecclesiastical headquarters in Haifa.

The city is also a haven for the Baha‘i faith, and - you, of course, know, but maybe others here on FR might be interested to learn - the Baha‘i temple is a world-famous landmark of the city 🙂

[Eleutheria5]

They also have a “grove” of some sort near Akko. All I know about the Baha’i, aside from that grove and the temple, is that there are some weirdo hippies in the US who also claim to be Baha’i. Goes hand in hand with Rastafarians smoking weed and honoring the memory of Halai Salasi for some reason.

Israel has ancient religions and some freak shows, too. America has freak shows, blended in with, or existing alongside, ancient religions. All the ancient religions that there are, however, have not killed as many people, or caused as much suffering, as the modern religions of communism and fascism have in a few short decades or ten. They are beyond mere “freak shows”.

[Eli Kopter]

Judging by the architecture, the usual mix of Maronite, Greek Orthodox, and Armenian Orthodox. I haven’t been up there on the ground since the early eighties, so I am sure it is mostly Muslim now. That is a shame.

[Menes]

Hm, I don’t know about the Rastafarians, who seem to be more of a political ideology dressed as a faith, which advocates the return of all blacks to Africa to found a reign of peace under an African emperor- but at least they do not preach genocide.

The Baha‘i, however, are a syncretic faith. They believe Moses, Jesus Christ and Mohammed to be prophets of the One True G.d. They believe in humanity as a single entity, like the different body parts of a human, and they preach non-violence. However, I don’t know about their consumption of cannabis, to me, it seems that the Rastafarians, not the Baha’i, tend to do this often, as the former consider smoking „ganja“, i.e. cannabis, to be a sacred ritual.

I never have heard about the Baha‘is taking drugs; after all, the sacred Scriptures of the Baha‘i strongly discourage the use of mind-altering substances (medical emergencies are the only exception). This, they say, might lead the believer’s soul astray on its path to G.d, as drugs by their very nature obscure the clarity of the user‘s mind.

Baha’ism is a young faith. The founders of Baha’ism came from Iran in the 19th century CE, but were considered a political danger there. In 1851, the Bab, the Persian founder of Baha‘ism, was executed, and his successor, also from Persia, wandered around the Ottoman empire preaching to his followers. This went on until he settled in Haifa around 1870, where he spent the rest of his life in prayer, preaching and writing, until his death in 1892.

His grave, also in Haifa, is considered the most sacred site of Baha‘ism 🙂, and Baha‘is pray facing towards it, just like Muslims turn toward Mecca.

Consindering all this, I think Baha‘ism is a peaceful and friendly religion. One does have not agree with them, but their central tenet od a brotherhood of Mankind inG.d does sound appealing, if you compare it with Communism, Fascism, and Islamism, I would say😀

[Menes]

Very sorry, I forgot that Baha‘ullah‘s grave is near Akko, where his house stood. Still, he had spent a time in Haifa in prison, before his release and subsequent move to Akko.

[Eleutheria5]

I remember being at a demonstration in 1979 in DC, and everyone assembled in Lafayette Park, and a bunch of Baha’iyans were there, twirling around in circles and howling together, and trying to entice me to join them in their ring around the rosy thing that they were doing, and throwing out catch phrases at me like “Peace,” “Love,” “Brotherhood,” etc., to get me in their circle thing, and on that basis I wrote them off as a hippy freak show.

[Menes]

Very strange. Maybe these people were just Baha‘i renegades who had decided to abandon the tenets of their religion.

Or they were just dope users who pretended to be Baha‘i, having read a few pages of Baha‘ullahs writings, misinterpreted what Baha‘ism is all about and talked nonsense. It is, in fact, more religious mysticism than anything else, iirc.

[Jim Noble]

The story of the various nations which shared land in the non-Turkish parts of the Ottoman Empire, how they related to each other and to the Turkish officials in charge is poorly understood, especially if you went to a normal American school.

Former Ottoman Syria (Judea, Samaria, Palestine, Damascus, the Lebanon, Aleppo, etc) is just as complicated as the Balkans, maybe more so.

For example, if you try to understand why there is a border between "Romania" and "Moldova", or just what "Transnistria" is (and Bulgaria? Fuggedabout it) - if you want to know about those things, and you can't define Bey, Khedive, Vilayet and don't know who the Janissaries were - good luck figuring out the players in Ukraine - who is right, who is wrong, who "our guys" are, what is America's national interest in Odessa, and who was Catherine the Great anyway?

As far as states in what we call the "Middle East" go: Saying there is no such thing as "Palestine" is as true, and as false, as saying there is no such thing as "Lebanon", or "Syria", or "Israel" or (especially) "Iraq". We talk abut "Kurdistan" all the time, which is as real, and as unreal, as "Palestine".

There is a war going on in the former Ottoman territories south of present day Turkey, West of Persia, and East of Egypt among nations subjugated by the Ottomans until the 1920s and not at peace with each other. Superimposed on these conflicts is an attempt by the victorious powers of WW II to impose order involving a "United Nations", lines on maps, "international law", "rules", and above all the ability of the United States to act as referee, but a referee with tanks and aircraft carriers who is willing to use them. This US role, usually masquerading as the "international community" is coming to an end for a variety of reasons, and the tribes in the region will probably escalate intercommunal violence until one or the other is able to impose a brutal new regime and force peace for a few centuries.

That's how they do things over there. Here's how an ethno-religious conflict ended in 1809:

That's a tower of Serbian skulls built by the Turks the year Abraham Lincoln was born in a log cabin in Kentucky.

I don't know if Israel is able or willing to construct a tower of Palestinian skulls in Gaza to define victory - I kind of doubt it. Since as we see their enemies are more than willing to do that to the Jews, or worse, you do have to wonder who is going to win and who is going to lose here in the end.

The post-1945 American strategy of "declare victory, get out and go home" after losing another war can't really work for Israel, since they are already home. So they have to win, if they can.

[Eleutheria5]

Most likely the latter. This was the seventies, man, when all the left-wing crap had sincere adherents, who really believed that John Lenon, Simon and Garfunkle, Bob Dylan et al, were part of a prophetic movement, and that dope would be the culture of the new civilization they were building (Anarchist Cookbook said so, so it must be true!/s). At that anti-nuke rally in Lafayette Park, there were locals from Three-mile Island, who were genuinely concerned about nuclear safety, there were tie-dyed-in-the-wool communists, and there were weird hippies, and rock concert enthusiasts (lots of musicians performed). The “Ba-highs” were doing weird hippy sh!t in the name of Ba-high-ism. The Three-mile-islanders were openly hostile to the communists passing them literature, and the rock concert enthusiasts were getting into brawls over girls in between sets by Judy Collins and the like.

[Eleutheria5]

You’ve just about covered it. Woe betide the American President who mixes into anything east of the Balkans or the Bug River. It’s de ja vu all over again. If anything can dull Trump’s momentum, it’s Ukraine and Gaza. He’s no coward, but he’s also getting into a fist fight with tar baby.