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Video: A Voepass airlines plane has crashed near São Paulo, Brazil
Rumble ^

Posted on 08/09/2024 10:34:15 AM PDT by janetjanet998

A Voepass airlines plane has crashed near São Paulo, Brazil


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To: cpdiii
There was an L-1011 out of Miami retrofitted for cargo that hauled all the carpet fabrics to the Saturn plant in Tennessee, as they arrived on cargo boats from China. They were part of that "just in time manufacturing" theory of Demming.

One night they had to get several 50,000 pound rolls to the Saturn plant by morning or the production would halt. They loaded the rolls and after doing weight and balance they took off. It was late at night with very little traffic, so they requested a maximum rate of climb in a climbing turn to their airway. So fine.

The rolls had failed to be chained in place and slid aft to the tail. The aft CG at that weight was an immediate irrecoverable death spiral. Horrible when I think about it.

A tail spin straight into the everglades swamps. Nothing was found except an oil shimmer and wing pieces. It's estimated they are buried in about 100 feet of muck dating back to the times of dinosaurs.

I flew a group of golfers in a Cherokee Six 300 from Wilmington Delaware to some golf place in Georgia. Bag after bag of clubs and drunk dudes. We took off and I had to use 8500 feet of a 10,000 foot runway in a Cherokee. The best rate of climb I could keep was between 75 and 100 fpm without stalling. As we were climbing out at the astonishment of tower, I canceled my flight plan and chose a departure VFR over the bay. My passengers said they loved the scenic views with the sailboats. (The masts were as high as we were) I flew over the ocean and bays all the way to Norfolk where I finally burned off enough fuel to get safely to 6,500 feet.

Then I dialed in Augusta to my Loran, and we arrived safely.

Never-ever- again. Angry disappointment is better than death.

41 posted on 08/09/2024 1:36:37 PM PDT by blackdog ((Z28.310) Be careful what you say. Your refrigerator may be listening & reporting you.)
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To: metmom

Appears to be a flat spin. Hard to get into even deliberately unless aircraft loading/center of gravity is wrong. Specific set of steps to recover which at best is problematic. Questionable if pilots are trained on it unless in simulator. Takes superior airmanship to deal with.


42 posted on 08/09/2024 1:45:46 PM PDT by Bonemaker (invictus maneo)
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To: Delta 21

That’s not quite right...this was a flat spin, not just a stall.


43 posted on 08/09/2024 2:06:20 PM PDT by dinodino ( Cut it down anyway. )
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To: Bonemaker

I think I’ll drive.


44 posted on 08/09/2024 2:28:02 PM PDT by citizen (Put all LBQTwhatever programming on a new subscription service: PERV-TV)
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To: janetjanet998

Reminds me of American Eagle years ago...ice?


45 posted on 08/09/2024 3:01:02 PM PDT by RckyRaCoCo (Time to throw them out of the Temple...again)
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To: beethovenfan
I bet it was pilot error. DEI ?

It was a foreign carrier. I wouldn't bet they are as committed to DEI doctrine that we are here.

In post 26 in this thread, the flight profile showed the plane was all over the place in both altitude and airspeed (but not course).

I'm beginning to think maybe a non-qualified person was in the cockpit. Disabled flight crew?? Hijacking?? Pure speculation right now.

I would think if there was an engine problem on the left side, an aircrew would declare an emergency with ATC and return to the point of origin considering the profile reference in post 26.

46 posted on 08/09/2024 4:01:32 PM PDT by pfflier
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To: pfflier; beethovenfan

Computer versus pilots problem maybe?


47 posted on 08/09/2024 4:38:02 PM PDT by BenLurkin (The above is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion, or satire, or both.)
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To: cymbeline

Thats what you use all those little plastic slide rule gadgets and the software for the airplane to figure all that out. I dont think there any sensors that can tell you the center of gravity. You just have to keep it updated. +/- fuel/people and a lot more. All heavy objects are categorized and the appropriate tie down is used every time, not just when we want to crash.


48 posted on 08/09/2024 5:11:35 PM PDT by Delta 21 (If anyone is treasonous, it is those who call me such.)
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To: BenLurkin
Computer versus pilots problem maybe?

The ATR autopilot system does have altitude and course control features that can be programmed for the entire flight profile, takeoff to landing. I don't think that ATR-27 has an autothrottle although part of the autopilot display indicates airspeed optimized for rate of climb.

That is pushing me to think an unqualified person was attempting to fly the plane. It would have held course and try to hold altitude but would be subject to deviations because of erratic throttle manipulation.

The bigger mystery is why no pilot to ATC conversations especially with a few altitude busts???

49 posted on 08/09/2024 5:45:24 PM PDT by pfflier
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To: cpdiii
Shifting cargo dooms 747 cargo plane, causes crash at Bagram, Afghanistan.

747 cargo plane crashes at Bagram airbase

The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) determined that the probable cause of this accident was National Airlines’ inadequate procedures for restraining special cargo loads. This resulted in the loadmaster’s improper restraint of the cargo, which moved aft and damaged hydraulic systems Nos. 1 and 2 and horizontal stabilizer drive mechanism components, rendering the airplane uncontrollable

50 posted on 08/09/2024 6:10:05 PM PDT by OldHarbor (strained statutory arguments, appeals to inconsistent history, reliance on out-of-circuit authority)
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To: metmom

Looked like a flat spin. When my son was in USAF pilot training, they practiced stall recovery EVERY day. Sometimes, the entire flight, was nothing but stall recovery training. He said it was MAX, RELAX, ROLL.


51 posted on 08/09/2024 6:43:55 PM PDT by Mark17 (Retired USAF air traffic controller. Father of USAF pilot. Both bitten by the aviation bug)
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To: BenLurkin
Blancolirio on YouTube always has a very good reputation interpreting aircraft accidents. His initial take was severe icing resulting in loss of control.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozinSmylTmQ

52 posted on 08/09/2024 6:50:20 PM PDT by pfflier
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To: janetjanet998

Now reports are coming in of icing conditions at 17,000ft. Did their pitot tube ice over and they have false readings of airspeed? Did that add to problems with the wings icing up and icing conditions that overtook the autopilot and cause a high speed stall at cruising altitude? That appears to be the prevalent initial speculation of the cause for the stall and subsequent spin. The ATR has had several crashes due to icing.


53 posted on 08/09/2024 10:28:59 PM PDT by Mat_Helm
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To: Mat_Helm
Where did you get this information?

It's like you are reading the flight data recorder.

This why I love this site! There are Experts in EVERY field of endeavor here!

54 posted on 08/10/2024 8:54:03 AM PDT by painter ( Isaiah: �Woe to those who call evil good and good evil,")
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To: painter

Post #8 has a screen shot of Flightradar24 but does not show the graph at the bottom for the actual flight data that you can call up. This is recorded by ATC from the flights transponder. Flightaware has this as well. On each site you do a search of the flight number and it will show all the flights for that aircraft. This will include a timestamped data for altitude, ground speed, and other data by the second. I do not know how to post the site data with a screen grab for that site. Interesting is that the Flightaware data does not match the Flightradar24 which shows large deviations in groundspeed for this flight. On Blancolero’s web site he does show the graph for the Flightawre tracking of this flight. That site shows less deviations in groundspeed as apposed to the Flightradar24 site data.


55 posted on 08/10/2024 12:00:10 PM PDT by Mat_Helm
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