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Myths and Realities of the Russian/NATO NCO Systems
Simplicius the Thinker ^ | 9/2/23 | Simpicius

Posted on 09/07/2023 3:10:00 PM PDT by EnderWiggin1970

Interestingly enough, a Donbass commander relayed the story of how Ukraine faced disastrous losses in the SMO partly for this reason. When NATO came to overhaul the AFU into their much-vaunted Western NCO system, the Ukrainian officers subsequently saw opportunity to “pull back” from the frontline, considering that to be an obsolete “Soviet” tactic, and figuring the new NATO-trained sergeants can handle leading the charge.

The problem is that in the U.S., as Ryan Mcbeth repeatedly emphasizes, sergeants undergo many years of progressive training in order to truly develop the leadership and famed “initiative”-building qualities touted in the West. You can’t just turn someone into a sergeant overnight, pull all the commanders off the field, then tell the sergeant to take over.

This naturally resulted in clueless AFU “sergeants” leading a bunch of helpless conscripts straight to their deaths in endless meat assaults, where no one had any idea of what they were doing. You know all those recent videos where entire trenches full of AFU personnel surrender, and in their “interviews” state how they had no clue where the commanders were and haven’t seen or heard from them in days/weeks?

(Excerpt) Read more at simplicius76.substack.com ...


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KEYWORDS: books; miltary; nco; russia; suvorov; ukraine; viktorsuvorov
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Good article digging into the details of Russian (and Ukrainian) NCOs and their role on the battlefront.
1 posted on 09/07/2023 3:10:00 PM PDT by EnderWiggin1970
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To: EnderWiggin1970

There is a larger issue with the NATO NCO strategy: in a multi-year peer war, most of the troops you started with end up as casualties by the end of year one - especially junior officers and NCOs.

The survivors end up as trainers for the people on the battlefield in years two and three.

If NCOs take years to train, and most of them end up as casualties after year one, where are the experienced NCOs going to come from in years two and beyond ?


2 posted on 09/07/2023 3:17:16 PM PDT by Reverend Wright ( Everything touched by progressives, dies !)
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To: EnderWiggin1970

Could we possibly get the NCO to do without the AFL at another URL? That would be PDS!


3 posted on 09/07/2023 3:34:09 PM PDT by Fungi
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To: EnderWiggin1970

Reminds me of the “Instant Sergeant” program they had in Vietnam...


4 posted on 09/07/2023 3:41:18 PM PDT by RetiredTexasVet (Biden not only suffers fools and criminals, he appoints them to positions of responsibility. )
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To: EnderWiggin1970

“When NATO came to overhaul the AFU into their much-vaunted Western NCO system, the Ukrainian officers subsequently saw opportunity to “pull back” from the frontline”

I guess the West Point Training Manuals never bothered to mention that GPS could be jammed, since none of their graduates has EVER had to directly fight a MODERN army, as in the Russian Army.


5 posted on 09/07/2023 4:01:02 PM PDT by BobL (I eat at McDonald's and shop at Walmart, I just don't tell anyone)
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To: EnderWiggin1970
In 1994, I went through Army Boot camp and one of my bunkmates was a Russian who was drafted into the Red Army in 1985. He told me that all the training was done by Officers, and the Sergeants were merely there for administrative duties.

Western Armies (American, British, Canadian, French, German, etc.) have traditionally had very strong NCO Corps. Senior leadership entrusts much responsibility to these NCO's and it pays off on the mission end.

Eastern Armies either entrust too much authority in their officer corps, or Senior leadership. In authoritarian countries, many Generals hate have subordinates that have a strong base of knowledge- they're afraid that they'll get overthrown. Other armies have a contempt for ALL enlisted men, not just privates.

6 posted on 09/07/2023 4:08:17 PM PDT by MuttTheHoople ( "I never thought I'd live to see the day when the right wing would become the cool ones giving the )
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To: MuttTheHoople
For a good read on the NCO/officer setup in the old Soviet Army (and, for all I know, continues on in the Russian Army), read "The Liberators" and "Inside the Soviet Army" by Viktor Suvorov ... really great stuff.


7 posted on 09/07/2023 4:15:36 PM PDT by BlueLancer (Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times, it's enemy action.)
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To: Reverend Wright
In the US military, nobody becomes an NCO without training to be an NCO. The US military puts a lot of responsibility on even its junior enlisted men.

This starts even in Basic training, where we were trained by our Drill Sergeants on how to establish a base perimeter and command what troops were left.

We were also trained to realize that even as a junior enlisted man, the lives of hundreds of fellow troops relied on how well you performed. My ARMY Drill Sergeant told us the story of Doug Hegdahl, a teenaged NAVY sailor blown off the deck of a ship and captured by the North Vietnamese. Because of his resourcefulness, he possibly saved the lives of hundreds of his fellow POW's.

This reminded us to take our training very seriously.

8 posted on 09/07/2023 4:15:44 PM PDT by MuttTheHoople ( "I never thought I'd live to see the day when the right wing would become the cool ones giving the )
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To: MuttTheHoople

If you read the article you’ll see how things are changing such as in the 2008 reforms in Russia. Ironically, as the US is now the more authoritarian state, with extremely poor educational backgrounds among the recruits, it appears the situation is reversing.


9 posted on 09/07/2023 4:24:21 PM PDT by EnderWiggin1970
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To: MuttTheHoople

That’s all fine, but the point is that in a multi-year peer war, after year one, NCOs with “years of training” will all be gone, and the NCOs who take over will have weeks or months of training.

If your basic force structure relies on NCOs with “years of training” and you don’t have any, you have to change your basic defence strategy in the middle of a war, on the fly.

Better to be realistic and set things up before hand.


10 posted on 09/07/2023 4:29:20 PM PDT by Reverend Wright ( Everything touched by progressives, dies !)
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To: EnderWiggin1970

The problem I have with the Russia-Ukraine War, is the terrible war footage. Footage that doesn’t align with the hundreds of thousands casualty figures that are being floated around by propagandists on “both sides.”

The last footage I watched, had 7 or 8 Ukrainians clearing empty trenches in the middle of nowhere.

The footage before that had 8-10 Ukrainians get out of AV, spend about a half hour to kill one Russian, with no body presented, but one Ukrainian guy talks “cocky talk” about his mission for a minute.

My favorite is the one explosion showed from multiple angles and it gets presented as different explosions in the same video.

Please ...please...lets get some footage that looks real from these huge military operations in Ukraine.


11 posted on 09/07/2023 4:32:55 PM PDT by unclebankster ( Globalism is the last refuge scoundrel)
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To: BobL

….and the wide selection of deadly weapons at Ivan’s platoon level. They have weapons we simply do not have, notice the platoon level Thermobarics section, drone section, imbedded at the lowest level. Throw in the RPG and ATGM at the lowest level.

Of particular interest is their thermobaric developments, down to thermobaric grenades……NATO had better get busy, Ivan appears to be way ahead of the curve….we already blew it when we ditched artillery for aircraft….as Patton said when asked what won the war, our “ Artillery “…..interesting we gave a majority of our M777’s away, only to be destroyed.


12 posted on 09/07/2023 4:43:44 PM PDT by delta7
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To: unclebankster

You sure you want to see actual combat footage with Russian soldiers getting blasted? There’s some on Rumble. I am not going to link to any just because it’s dancing on someone’s grave.


13 posted on 09/07/2023 4:46:08 PM PDT by MeganC (There is nothing feminine about feminism. )
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To: unclebankster

You are a victim of Western media- try Southfront, , Odysee, TME, Slavyguard for TONS of live geolocated video, it paints a very, very different picture…” Bradley Square”, for example.


14 posted on 09/07/2023 4:47:29 PM PDT by delta7
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To: EnderWiggin1970

15 posted on 09/07/2023 4:49:42 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Our Greatest Ally Evah)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

16 posted on 09/07/2023 4:50:35 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Our Greatest Ally Evah)
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To: delta7

“Of particular interest is their thermobaric developments, down to thermobaric grenades……NATO had better get busy, Ivan appears to be way ahead of the curve”

ABSOLUTELY - which was why I opposed the war from the outset. It was TOTALLY OBVIOUS to us people with a military background that we NEVER took Russia (or China, for that matter) seriously, and instead chose to simply IGNORE all of the advances made by them, and they weren’t even secrets.

Beyond that, we had Weinies in DOD (probably some of the bunch here, LOL) who almost certainly figured that if GPS worked in their car, then GPS would work on the battlefield.

...while the term ‘jamming’ was never part of their Annapolis syllabus.


17 posted on 09/07/2023 4:53:55 PM PDT by BobL (I eat at McDonald's and shop at Walmart, I just don't tell anyone)
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To: EnderWiggin1970

This was a good movie depicting what the US Army went through

https://youtu.be/Oi4eo0GvgTw?si=aikRDFFmfwyRHFzN


18 posted on 09/07/2023 5:05:23 PM PDT by Dogbert41 (“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God” -Matthew 5:9)
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To: BobL

while the term ‘jamming’ was never part of their Annapolis syllabus.
—————
Either was “ Thermobarics”, or supersonic cruise missiles…both of which Vlad has an endless supply. I will say back in my days ( 70’s) with the 82nd, we were aware of Ivan’s widespread use of Thermobaric grenades, RPG’s etc…the US chose to disregard developing that weapon, which as we see now are the “ ticket” for bunkers, trenches, enclosed areas….their latest grenade has a 12 meter kill radius inside buildings, trenches, etc….these beauties literally suck the air out of your lungs, if you are breathing air, you are done- unlike frags and our offensive grenades ( I think we ditched those a few years back)….

…..with that said, our military decided to put a third safety on our M67 frags a few years ago…..THREE safeties??? They cited todays troops “ lacked confidence “….


19 posted on 09/07/2023 5:27:36 PM PDT by delta7
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To: delta7

While our DOD was busy wasting millions on putting a third safety on our M67’s, ( 7 years in development) ,Ivan was busy developing even more lethal thermobarics…go figure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkN-_SPhTmg&t=23s


20 posted on 09/07/2023 5:42:02 PM PDT by delta7
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