Posted on 01/17/2023 8:36:27 AM PST by Kazan
America’s infatuation with Ukraine and Zelensky (the Cocaine Comedian) is starting to wane, but most politicians and the public continue to believe the lie that Ukraine is an innocent country being bludgeoned by a communist Russia ruled by a dictator. Oh yeah. Don’t forget. Russia is suffering massive military and economic losses and just can’t live without U.S. investment and Europe’s technology. It is all nonsense, but if you are living in the United States and try to have a reasoned discussion with the fan boys and girls cheering for Ukraine, you would find more success talking to a brick wall.
But cracks are starting to show. One of my brilliant readers sent me the link to Michael Brendan Dougherty‘s latest in the National Review (a conservative icon in the magazine world), What Have We Bargained for in Ukraine? I encourage you to read the entire piece. More importantly, read the comments. That will give you some insight into the insanity that still reigns with regards to sending billions of dollars in money and materiel to Ukraine.
Here are the salient portions of the piece:
My friend and colleague Matthew Continetti writes that “securing America’s position and freedom’s future without direct intervention and for a rounding error in the federal budget is a strategic bargain. Ukraine needs more, not less, U.S. aid, and it needs it now.” In Commentary in November, Noah Rothman wrote that “Kyiv’s victories are our victories, too, insofar as they advance a core American national interest: preserving the stable European covenant that has blessed Western powers with the longest, most durable peace on the Continent in the modern age.”
This view holds that for pennies on the dollar, the U.S. has been able to preserve a democracy threatened by an authoritarian regime, cripple a rival military, strengthen the NATO alliance, prevent Vladimir Putin from an inevitable invasion of NATO territory, and scare off Xi Jinping from ever messing with Taiwan. . . .
Except, none of this is quite true. Crippling a rival military is only worthwhile when you have a strategic reason for doing so, and we conspicuously lack one. The NATO alliance’s duties have been radically expanded with no radical expansion in the share of the alliance’s burdens shouldered by Europe. Ukraine’s ultra-nationalist project is at odds with the democratic and liberal-internationalist values that are used to sell the conflict abroad. The conflict’s financial and moral costs to the U.S. have been growing for nearly a decade, and taking on Ukraine as a permanent dependent will grow them even more. The arc of the conflict is just as likely to encourage as to discourage Xi in his pursuit of Taiwan, given the ways in which our enmeshment in Europe will deplete our attention, resources, and will to be the world’s cop. And finally, no conflict in this blood-stained area of the globe is a mom-and-pop bingo game in which you can cash out your modest investments at any time; Vladimir Putin and Russia have a say in how this ends.
There you have it. A prominent conservative writer who was a strong supporter of Ukraine (and still insists that Putin is some sort of Darth Vader who enjoys borscht) is conceding that America’s strategy is based on a lie.
Over at Neo-Con central — i.e., the Institute for the Study of War — the stenographers masquerading as analysts grudgingly concede that Russia captured Soledar, but then proceeds to focus on their own fantastical speculation that there is political strife in Russia surrounding the Wagner Group’s success in the battle for Soledar. They write nothing about the strategic significance of the fall of Soledar, nothing about the growing Russian pressure on Bakhmut to the south of Soledar and nothing about Ukraine’s catastrophic casualties. It is genuinely bizarre.
Quite a few Freepers are working for Deep State.
Um, no, I’m not. I do not favor anything BrandonJunta is doing.
I do not know what you are talking about. Chill out already.
I have not read the entire thread yet, so take my comment with a grain of salt...
WHAT- is the CIA up to?
Full stop!
And remember... the CIA, is NOT- interested... in YOUR interests.
About a month ago, 90 something year old statesman-dinosaur, Henry Kissinger... said: Ukraine should NOT join NATO.
Heard on the radio today- Henry Kissinger said: Ukraine, SHOULD join NATO.
Therefore- it’s OK, if Mexico, joins the WARSAW Pact.
ENJOY the stupidity.
A Short Story
Once upon a time-
SWIM
=
Someone I met...
Knows someone-
That is making wooden boxes for a COMPANY.
That COMPANY is sending stuff to Ukraine.
The end.
“You’re grossly ignorant of modern-day Russia.”
And you’re a gullible sucker who believes the lies of a KGB psychopath.
“While some of the fighters may have pushed to become separate from Ukraine, the majority did not want to become part of Russia again.”
In fact, the leaders of the separatists issues declarations of independence in both Donetsk and Luhansk. And you can sneer at Al Jazeera but of course Al Jazeera’s source was the PRESS RELEASE from the separatists themselves. Those are facts, not matters of opinion, not up for debate.
“You keep repeating the same old BS”
Yes, because you keep missing the point, so I have to keep repeating it.
No, you keep missing the point, that being that Russian speaking Ukrainians were under constant terroristic attacks.
You are a completely dishonest person, and you have admitted that you really do not care about Ukraine or her people. It's all about destroying Russia.
Problem is you are so invested in that goal you do not realize that you are destroying this nation in the process. You will not save Ukraine, but you will succeed in the loss of this nation because of you limitless stupidity.
As millions, from numerous nations, invade this nation through our southern border you and every American losses control of their own country.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Flying Eagle is one of the good guys. 😊
“...you have admitted that you really do not care about Ukraine or her people. It’s all about destroying Russia.”
You can quote me saying that, of course. Or are you just doing your Adam Schiff schtick again?
But you are still avoiding the impossible fact to overcome, that a peaceful solution to avoid a kinetic war war not what was wanted, even though it was available.
And I was referring to implementing the Minsk Agreements (1st one in 2014 & 2nd one in 2015) that Ukraine had signed that would have addressed & stopped the terroristic acts of the Azov neo-Nazis in eastern Ukraine & restored peace there.
Finally after several back & forth responses you finally replied:
As I’ve already told you, I ignore what is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. I understand you would like to steer the conversation to some other topic, but I have no interest in that and have no obligation to indulge you in that.
Sorry, but the actions that led up to the actual invasion are not only relevant, but they go to the heart of the topic of invasion.
They are only not relevant if you choose to ignore what led up to the invasion.
By proclaiming it as irrelevant, you prove that you were more invested in engaging in a proxy war with Russia than you really cared about the border of Ukraine, the country of Ukraine, or the citizens of Ukraine that you are now claiming as your reasons for supporting the continuation of the conflict. Otherwise, you would have demanded that the peaceful resolution path be implemented, but by your own admission you claim that is irrelevant. A peaceful resolution is never irrelevant. Russia began amassing troops along the Ukraine border on 12/3/2021 more than 3 months before they finally invaded. More than enough time to work in earnest towards a solution to avoid the actual invasion. That didn't happen, because they did not want a peaceful resolution. The U.S. Administration wanted a proxy war, just like you did, and they had convinced Zelenskyy to let that proxy war happen. You cheerleaders should all be so proud of yourselves.
Now you knew all of this with my last response to you. Just another example of your utter BS argument & the continued deflection of facts.
We have had over 5 million people invade this nation just since Biden usurped the presidency with the fraudulent election, while you remained silent. What a legacy you leave for your children, though perhaps the reality is you have no children.
You are nothing more than a virtue signaler like a leftist desiring the destruction of our country.
“you finally replied”
Yes, I replied something completely different than what you have tried to attribute to me. So you’re just lying again.
You're a poser, pure & simple..
“You say that what caused an 8 year reign of terror played no part in the invasion...”
Again, I’m going to have to insist that you provide the quote if you are going to claim I said something. You don’t exactly have a good track record of honestly here.
You implied that the 8 year reign of terror was irrelevant to the topic of Russia invading Ukraine, while explicitly stating that you ignore that which is irrelevant, which is analogous to saying 8 year reign of terror played no part in the invasion.
So, while you didn't explicitly state that sentence as I formulated it, the essence of your answer is equivalent to what I stated.
I'm done arguing with a moron who is destroying this country of ours with your support of this conflict.
“You implied that the 8 year reign of terror was irrelevant...”
Oh, first I “said” it. Now I “implied” it. The fact is I did neither. I didn’t say anything about any “8 year reign of terror”. You are the one who keeps talking about that, not me.
You can keep trying to strawman by putting words in my mouth, but it’s not going to work, since this is an open forum where all the posts are available to everyone. If you can’t quote me saying something, then everyone knows you are just lying.
Your response that it was irrelevant to the& that I was trying to change the topic. However, it absolutely is on topic, and it is relevant as well.
The fact that you state that 8 years of terroristic attacks is irrelevant, is the same as saying it played absolutely no part in the decision to invade.
But if your next door neighbor committed 8 years of terroristic attacks on you & your family, and law enforcement refused to do anything about it, you would finally react, and my guess is that it wouldn't take 8 years either. It happens all oof the time.
You are just plain dishonest or evil to claim it is irrelevant and off topic.
Now, this will be my last response to your BS & utter stupidity, because it's obvious that Ukraine is far more important to you than our nation is.
“The fact that you state that 8 years of terroristic attacks is irrelevant, is the same as saying it played absolutely no part in the decision to invade. “
No, I’m sorry, but saying some fact is irrelevant to a specific discussion is not the same as saying that fact is irrelevant in general, or irrelevant to some other discussion that you would like to be having. That’s just conflation on your part.
The regret would be a lot bigger and last a lot longer, if the U.S. stops aiding Ukraine. Regrets are all over the place after the U.S. abandoned Afghanistan.
Where does it end. What happens after Ukraine aid is stopped and Russia takes over. Will Russia be happy with just Ukraine, or are there other targets that they wish to conquer and assimilate into the “new USSR” What about China. Will they see how the U.S. abandoned Ukraine and Afghanistan, and feel encouraged to take Taiwan and other countries nearby.
The consequences are many, but, let’s just think myopically. Nothing will happen. Until it does!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.