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The Battle For Donbas Will Be A Tough Fight For Ukraine
19FortyFive ^ | 4/16/2022 | RET LT COL Daniel Davis

Posted on 04/17/2022 6:06:54 AM PDT by whyilovetexas111

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To: buwaya

now Russian formations all have integrated gun-missile air defense vehicles in their units.


And that is one of the major problems the Russians have now, and it cannot likely be fixed. When they drew on units for the invasion, they only took parts and pieces, not whole units, and so all integration was lost.


41 posted on 04/17/2022 7:49:03 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: PIF

The US needs to load up on artillery rounds of which they are running out of
————
Biden the fool has already given 1/4 of our Stingers and 1/3 of our Javelin to the Ukies. Some have been captured by Vlad ( Kadyrov) some destroyed, but the fact is our Pentagon called in the manufacturers- guess what? They said it will take at least two years to replenish our supply, three if they can’t get the needed materials ( Russian metal sanctions on the West)….and Vlad and Xi say “:Checkmate “.

The war cheerleaders just shot us in the foot, again.


42 posted on 04/17/2022 7:52:43 AM PDT by delta7
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To: whyilovetexas111
From the article:

In the Kyiv fight, there was little requirement for UAF troops to conduct coordinated maneuvers. Their primary task was to use small unit detachments that could move discreetly throughout the city, hitting Russian armor in the rear and flanks and then disappearing back into the urban terrain. Their objective was to destroy Russian armor, which they did with remarkable effectiveness.

In the Donbas fight, however, they won’t have high-rise buildings from which to fire down on the tanks, they won’t be able to engage from point-blank range, and it will be much more difficult to catch Russian units unawares.

Few high rises, indeed. But a quick survey of the countryside of that region reveals agricultural fields everywhere outside of the cities. And most of the fields are bordered with trees. Take a look at Google maps around, say, Pavlohrad with the satellite view on.) Trees that antitank teams can hide in very easily and have nice, relatively flat, open fields of fire. Trying to go cross country could prove very expensive for the Russians. And there are lots of trees - too many to smash all the likely firing positions by artillery fire or airstrikes.

43 posted on 04/17/2022 7:52:50 AM PDT by 17th Miss Regt
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To: oldvirginian

The Donbass rebellion was triggered when people refused to accept the coup that replaced their govt and political reps after the 2014 Maidan uprising, engineered by the USA

The first act of the “ new govt” within 3 days of being installed, was to make illegal the use of Russian language in education ….which showed the absolute vindictive priorities of the nationalist right wing installed in Kiev to cleanse the Eastern oblasts

Protestors against this Maidan coup, in Odessa, were hunted, driven into a building, and burned alive by neo-nazi thugs. The second so-called Odessa Massacre. The first being the 1941 slaughter of 30,000 ukrainians by German nazis and Ukrainian collaborators, followers of Stepan Bandera…who Zelensky elevated to the status of national hero to appease the extreme right

As far as the argument that there are no nazis in Ukraine because Zelensky is Jewish…

Zelensky would not be the first Jew in history to collaborate with racial/ethnic supremacists as a figurehead power. He is actually the perfect tool for the Ukrainian nationalist right…having been elected as a ‘ peace’ candidate and having never once engaged in real negotiations nor complied with the Minsk accords as the nationalists infiltrated territorial defense units and positions in the UKA and formed their own paramilitary groups. blasting villages in Donbass for 8 years and killing est 14,000 citizens tagged as ‘ separatists “

Expect some pretty horrrible things to be revealed as the Russians clean out Mariupol, Odessa, and other towns and cities that have been ruled by extreme right-wing politicos and their thugs


44 posted on 04/17/2022 7:55:30 AM PDT by silverleaf (“Freedom ultimately means the right of other people to do things that you disagree with”. T. Sowell )
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To: delta7

Javelin Stinger shortages for the US:

https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/russia-ukraine-crisis/us-facing-shortage-of-javelin-anti-tank-missiles-post-supplies-to-ukraine-report-articleshow.html

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2022/04/06/more-javelins-for-ukraine-amid-questions-about-us-supplies/

https://www.csis.org/analysis/saint-javelin-limited-supply

…..” The White House announced that over the past four weeks the United States has given Ukraine 4,600 javelin anti-tank missiles. This accounts for more than half of the 8,885 javelins the DOD acquired in the past decade, based on the DOD’s budget documents.….

Biden and the war cheerleaders are total idiots.


45 posted on 04/17/2022 7:56:58 AM PDT by delta7
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To: Renfrew

Re “… The problem for Russia is that the more territory they control the worse off they are. ..”

Same as the Wehrmacht going into Russia in WWII. The more things change… The more they stay the same…


46 posted on 04/17/2022 7:57:33 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.She was, indeed, a hottie… Rest in peace, Joanne.)
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To: PIF

Yes, from Putins own speech

The only sources ever claiming the Russians planned to take Kiev…were Western ‘ analysts”

Military common sense shows the Russians never sent sufficient forces to occupy Kiev or any other major population center.


47 posted on 04/17/2022 7:59:18 AM PDT by silverleaf (“Freedom ultimately means the right of other people to do things that you disagree with”. T. Sowell )
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To: silverleaf

These freaks are not ‘right wing’. There is nothing ‘right’ about these barbarians.

I remember Charlottesville…. Nazis will forever be evil.


48 posted on 04/17/2022 8:00:53 AM PDT by Just mythoughts (Psalm 2. Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?)
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To: buwaya

I would think the main problem is morale and the willingness to fight.


49 posted on 04/17/2022 8:04:12 AM PDT by DownInFlames (P)
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To: whyilovetexas111

“… eventually outright win the war.”

I think a better term is “force the Russians out”.

The state that their county will be could not be considered a “win”.

God bless them.


50 posted on 04/17/2022 8:06:49 AM PDT by jdsteel ("A Republic, Madam, if you can keep it." Sorry Ben, looks like we blew i)
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To: delta7

What better use of US Javelins and Stingers than getting rid of Russian tanks and CAS aircraft? The only reason the US has stocks of those is to get rid of those exact same tanks and etc, should it have to. If the Ukrainians are doing that job for the US then all to the good.

What other proximate threat is there where the US would have a use for these missiles? Who else has a large tank fleet? Certainly not going to be the Chinese in Taiwan.


51 posted on 04/17/2022 8:08:29 AM PDT by buwaya (Strategic imperatives )
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To: ckilmer

Right, and this guy assumes Russian success because of the flat open area. The battlefield has changed and this guy is behind intel curve.


52 posted on 04/17/2022 8:13:03 AM PDT by BiglyCommentary
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To: silverleaf

“ Esp since the Russians never intended to enter Kiev”

An unsupportable opinion.

Did you have a conversation with Putin and believe what he said when he told you that?


53 posted on 04/17/2022 8:13:10 AM PDT by jdsteel ("A Republic, Madam, if you can keep it." Sorry Ben, looks like we blew i)
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To: Renfrew
I don't think the Ukrainians can ploy the same strategy of trading land to inflict casualties in the Donbass. Just not as much space to trade without giving up the entire region.

But I think it's important to remember for how long there has been fighting there. The whole area must be honeycombed with trenches, tank obstacles, minefields, etc.. Could be a graveyard for tanks.

54 posted on 04/17/2022 8:13:28 AM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin
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To: silverleaf

Well, they did. They had three Armies on the Kiev front, and one at Kharkov. A Russian Army is like a US Army Corps. That was over 80,000 men committed to Kiev. We can go count brigades and figure whether that amounted to half or more of the maneuver units committed overall, I suspect it was, and most of the best ones too.

That was more than twice, or thrice (being as the Russians are much more “tooth” to “tail” vis a vis the US) what the US had on the ground when it took Baghdad.

Now, if the Ukrainians had been as inept and dispirited as the Iraqis in 2003, the Russians certainly would have taken Kiev.


55 posted on 04/17/2022 8:17:01 AM PDT by buwaya (Strategic imperatives )
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To: silverleaf

“Military common sense shows the Russians never sent sufficient forces to occupy Kiev or any other major population center.”

Because Putin was given the ear tickling BS that a majority of Ukrainians would welcome the “liberators”, rushing out to meet them with flowers, wanting the troops to kiss their babies. FAIL!!!


56 posted on 04/17/2022 8:17:10 AM PDT by BiglyCommentary
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To: DownInFlames

Well, that, certainly. But we dont know where or how that intangible will go.


57 posted on 04/17/2022 8:18:36 AM PDT by buwaya (Strategic imperatives )
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin

Western intel support does seem to have been a “force multiplier” for Ukraine given Russia’s apparent lack of appreciation of just how much it could impact the effectiveness (such as it is) of their operations. A little information can go a long way in warfare.


58 posted on 04/17/2022 8:18:49 AM PDT by Starboard
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To: whyilovetexas111

“A careful – and honest – assessment of the situation on the ground in Ukraine, however, should dispel such notions.”


59 posted on 04/17/2022 8:20:29 AM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: silverleaf

Made long after the fact. Another Russian excuse.


60 posted on 04/17/2022 8:26:42 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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