Posted on 04/08/2022 9:38:36 AM PDT by blam
Last weekend saw Finland’s Prime Minister Sanna Marin signal a complete reversal of policy direction, saying that a “new security environment” in Europe brought on by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine means the country has to rethink its long-standing policy of neutrality toward the NATO bloc. “Russia is not the neighbor we thought it was,” she said of Moscow’s ongoing assault on Ukraine, calling it a “flagrant violation”.
“In this new situation and changed security environment, we’ll have to evaluate all means to guarantee the safety of Finland and Finns,” Marin said. “We’ll have to seriously mull over our own stance and approach to military alignment. We’ll have to do this carefully but quickly, effectively during the course of this spring.”
Days after these words which Moscow saw as highly provocative, Axios in a new report says Finland’s ascendancy to the alliance appears “imminent”. “Public support and political momentum for Finland joining NATO has reached an all-time high as a result of the war in Ukraine, raising the very real possibility that the alliance’s borders with Russia could extend by more than 830 miles in a matter of months,” the report says. It could be a mere weeks away.
NATO military exercise near Namsos, Norway. Image: US Marine Corps
Sweden is also mentioned in the report as being positioned to seek entry into NATO alongside Finland. This after NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg’s open invitation this week. He suggested both Nordic countries would be fast tracked. He remarked this week that he expects “all 30 allies to welcome” Finland and Sweden should they choose to apply.
And according to Axios, “60% of Finns now support joining NATO, according to a survey conducted last month — a 34-point jump from last fall, and the highest level since polling on the issue began in 1998.”
Finland’s former prime minister, Alexander Stubb, articulated the current climate and thinking in Helsinki. “I think Finns at the moment are driven by what I call rational fear,” he told Axios.
“You have to balance between realism and idealism. Realism is that you have a strong standing military as we have, and idealism is to try to cooperate with a big neighbor,” he explained.
“Finland is driven by rational fear… that’s why we’ll join NATO.” Former Finnish Prime Minister and Director at @STGEUI @alexstubb tells @EleniGiokos about Finland’s decision to fast-track its application for NATO membership: pic.twitter.com/Z7iUyxKMZZ
— Connect the World (@CNNConnect) April 8, 2022
Stubb added: “There has been this bona fide attempt to forge a functioning relationship with Russia, and now that people see that that is impossible — especially under [President Vladimir] Putin — they’ve changed their opinion.”
Finland has over the years regularly hosted and participated in NATO exercises, while also seeking to pursue transparent and positive relations with Moscow.
It’d be nice to force the rabid dog into a two front war. Would quicken the bleed out rate considerably.
“I guess you’re making Putin’s point, aren’t you?”
Whether or not any country elects to join NATO and whether or not NATO elects to expand is not a matter in which Putin has a veto.
What’s ironic here is that in 1995 Russia was contemplating membership in NATO. I do not consider it a coincidence that Putin joined the Yeltsin government and then that opportunity was ended. Had Russia joined NATO then it would have had a say in who joins NATO.
So for now Putin’s opinion on who does or does not join NATO is irrelevant. And if he wants to go to war over it then that’s his choice, just as the war in Ukraine was his choice.
But Pidor Putin, Tsar of all Razvaluha, is lying to himself if he thinks he will be unopposed.
“I think NATO on their borders is their line”
It is their line. But it’s total BS. NATO on Russia’s border poses ZERO threat to Russia. NATO is one hundred percent a defensive alliance to prevent exactly the kind of thing going on in Ukraine right now. NATO has never threatened to attack and invade Russia. Russia on the other hand has always been the aggressor post WWII, so the expansion of NATO into countries that want to remain soverign is fully justified. What Putin wants is a bunch of subservient states who will answer to his every beck and call and with NATO at his border he doesn’t get that.
>> “NATO is purposefully antagonizing Russia.” I’ve had similar thoughts. <<
Standing up to bullies, thugs, and hooligans typically pisses them off. So?
NATO should stop it’s expansion at this point. A neutral Ukraine ends this entire mess more than likely. NATO blundered about for thirty years with no mission and it kept poking the bear needlessly until the bear responded in 2008 and Bush and Obama did nothing.
There should be no appeasement of Ivan, but to recklessly and unnecessarily provoke him is just as stupid. The US foreign policy establishment has been an utter disaster since Reagan left office. It’s based on leftist and neocon idiocy which doesn’t fly in the real world. We end up in endless wars which are not in our interests and we foolishly build up a real enemy in the far east at our own people’s expense.
You’re good and removing context. You said, someone needs to ask Russia what their line is. I told you then you said thr line is B.S.. At least you know it, whether or not you agree with it or think it’s B.S. Next time don’t pretend like you don’t know it.
Russia uses the same argument. NATO is pushing East, do we fight now or wait until all their pieces are in place. It’s always good to understand both sides of an issue.
I suppose you can always pretend that Russia has no genuine concerns and no say in the region. I suspect that will lead to on going wars but what do I know. I’m not an “expert”. That being said, the only one who has avoided these confrontations with Russia (and come on much stronger for it) is the one who questioned the experts. They didn’t appreciate that though so...here we are.
Both Sweden and Finland have only a few million people, and at the moment Russia is weak, but in 5 or 10 years it probably won’t be as weak, and will probably be even more aggressive.
I meant that as a rhetorical question. Everyone knows the reason for their line is BS. They know it too.
So the argument is that if NATO expands Russia will remain weak?
Well, it’s obviously not. It was crossed and they went to war over it. The very definition of a red line. You think that shouldn’t be their red line that’s a different discussion. You, however, must deal with reality and not what you wish were so.
Russia can barely manage a war against Ukraine. The Ukrainians were supposed to roll over in a few days due to the utter and absolute awesomeness of the Soviet forces arrayed against them and instead the Ukes went asymmetrical and they’ve slaughtered the Russians.
Russia going to war against Finland means Russia finding the manpower to go up against 317,000 well armed, well equipped, well trained, and pissed off Finnish troops.
Unless the Russians plan on using conscript cannon fodder against Finland then they have nothing in reserve to wage such a war. Russia’s military is a shell compared to the Soviet military of days of yore.
And when all of this finally comes to end, probably with Putin getting shot by one of his own people, Russia will be forced to denuclearize as a condition of resuming antebellum trade relations.
The Soviet Empire is right now doing a dead cat bounce.
What comes after this will be a shattered Russia and most likely a Russia that extends to the Urals and no further.
I don't think many Americans understand how Europeans are perceiving this conflict: there was a presumption that there would never again be a large scale war in Europe post-1945 and especially post-1989. All those illusions are now shattered.
NATO could always use another Islamic Ally such as Sweden in its Military Union.
I think that is way, way too optimistic forecast for Russia.
Not sure why you’re trying to convince me of how weak Russia is. They are apparently so weak that the NATO MUST expand.
It doesn’t take much modern military fire power to dump murderous rocket barrages on civilians. All you need are the rockets and the willingness to murder women and children. This is WW2 mil tech we are talking about.
“I suppose you can always pretend that Russia has no genuine concerns and no say in the region.”
Russia has genuine concerns and has peaceful means at its disposal to allay those concerns. Russia’s first and best way to reduce external threats is by not being a threat itself.
Second is to be a constructive partner with other countries in fostering growth, stability, and security.
I came up in the Cold War and I’ll tell you that I was endlessly heartened by the prospects for peace with Russia after the fall of the USSR. The US & Russia partnered to destroy millions of tons of Russian chemical and biological weapons, the US & Russia also partnered to reprocess excess nuclear weapons into reactor fuel.
I still applaud and appreciate Russia taking the lead role in exterminating the pirates in the Indian Ocean. Everyone else pussy footed around with the Somali and Indonesian pirates and Russia got in there and killed these scumbags dead. They even ran some great operations on land to kill Somali pirates.
This crap with Ukraine started precisely because Putin wants to rebuild the USSR. For twenty-five years he has denounced the sovereignty of Ukraine (and Belarus, too) insisting that Russia has some sort of God-given right to dominate these countries.
At the same time Putin smashed the progress that Russia was making as it transformed into a legitimate republic and instead made it into a dictatorship where he’s Fuehrer for Life.
Is it any wonder then that Ukraine is not in love with a Russia that’s ruled by an anti-Ukrainian dictator?
Now what if 25 years ago Ukraine and Russia had forged economic, cultural, and diplomatic ties based on mutual respect and trust? Do you think we’d be here today? I don’t.
The whole problem here is Putin.
And don’t think Putin’s buddy Lukashenko doesn’t feel the same way. He’s clearly leery of Russia’s intentions and that’s why he’s keeping Belarussian forces in reserve. Lukashenko wants to be able to fight off the Russians just in case they pivot from attacking Ukraine to conquering Belarus.
And given the current concentration of Russian forces in Belarus that’s not an irrational consideration.
Yeah, so Russia is entitled to the same concerns as any other country but only to the extent that they respect the concerns, security, and interests of other countries. It’s a two-way street here and that little prick in Moscow wants it his way and only his way.
Therefore his concerns are met with contempt and indifference. As they should be.
New tagline.
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