Posted on 05/06/2021 11:37:06 AM PDT by Yo-Yo
Texas seems to be inching closer to passing Constitutional Carry in the state, an increasingly common law that allows Americans to own firearms without permission from the government. However, Texas Gun Rights, the Second Amendment activist group championing the bill, says Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick has added a “poison pill” to the Senate version of the bill in a last minute bid to kill the legislation and prevent it from reaching Governor Greg Abbott’s desk.
At least two Texas legislators have expressed concerns that Patrick added amendments to the Senate version of the bill that would legally force the Texas House to reject it, stalling Constitutional Carry legislation for the next two years. On Facebook, Rep. Matt Schaefer wrote, “No celebration yet folks! We are now reviewing amendments that were added by the Senate to look for issues that would break House rules governing the purpose of HB 1927. Our first impression has us very concerned. Will share more as soon as we can. Our goal is to make Texas the 21st Constitutional Carry state.”
Separately, former Rep. Matt Rinaldi added, “So Dan Patrick’s plan to kill constitutional carry is to attach a non-germane amendment that will render it out of order in the House and blame [Texas House Speaker] Dade Phelan when he sustains the point of order.”
Speaking to National File, Matt McNutt of TX Gun Rights said, “In spite of his recent back pedaling, Lt. Gov. Patrick has been no friend to gun owners in the state of Texas. From threats of Universal Gun Registration to actively opposing open carry in 2015 and opposing Constitutional Carry every year since, Lt. Gov. Patrick has been a thorn in the side of law-abiding Texans wishing to defend their families without a government permission slip.”
“Now, it looks like Patrick may have successfully placed a poison pill in an amendment to Constitutional Carry, in hopes it would cause the House to kill the bill by a point of order. This will not be accepted or tolerated. Speaker Phelan and Lt.Gov. Patrick must get HB 1927 to Governor Abbott’s desk immediately. No stall tactics or procedural delays,” McNutt added.
McNutt and TX Gun Rights provided the Texas legislature with 118,000 petitions for Constitutional Carry to be passed in the state, jump starting the legislative process that led to the Texas House to pass its version of the bill. Patrick, who has reliably stopped pro-Second Amendment legislation during his political career in Texas, was instrumental in crafting the Senate’s version of the bill.
“You really don’t think there were any gun accidents in that period of time where people were injured or killed?”
Gun accidents happen in all states. Happen to cops as well. But we’re discussing CONCEALED CARRY. And there hasn’t been a flood of concealed carry unjustified shootings or “accidents” in any of the many states that allow carry without a license.
Curious as to what other of our natural God given rights you think should be licensed.
Hey, brother, some 21 states totalling probably around 100 million Americans have “unlicensed carry” for law abiding non-prohibited adults. We are NOT seeing widespread lunacy and mayhem because they are not “state” certified. I have more faith in normal people in Texas than ypu do.
You keep declaring your knowledge, post some figures revealing the stated rise in risk. Show me, I’m from MO.
Then we clearly agree.
Reasonable suspicion is not the mere presence of a weapon. I think this where the hang up regarding this bill’s status hangs.
If construed to mean a person with a weapon is subject to search /detention solely because of possession of a weapon, then that could be and likely would be the poison pill that gets the Bill tossed, or if signed into law, found unconstitutional.
As a former ccw instructor/ cert8fier in MO, I can see where unlicensed carry is a concern to thr business.
When MO. Passed permitless carry a few year’s back I was asked my opinion. I said it’s a right not a privledge, but responsible folks should see the benefit to a reasonable course of legal and practical instruction. Several trainers offer a short course for those interested.
In MO a ccw course runs about$75, then NMT $100 at the CSO for the actual permit processing.
Not sure how this TX bill looks at unlicensed carriers, but MO gives permitted carriers a whole lot more latitude than permitless folks.
La Liberte’!
No, we are talking "constitutional carry" which is not the same. Concealed carry in Texas requires instruction and testing. Constitutional carry requires neither. Check the stats. Gun accidents are almost non-existent with Concealed carry holders. People with little or no gun skills have many more accidents.
We also require a hunter safety course in Texas. Do you think that is also a bad idea?
Along with drivers licenses and licenses for HAZMAT carriers, I can think of doctors, nurses, dentists, electricians, plumbers, etc.
Oh wait - instruction and licensing is already required for those.
And, how would you know whether or not they were "savvy" without some sort of proof?
It appears that the issue that many are braying about isn’t anything to do with the stop (as there isn’t anything in the amended bill that authorizes a stop based solely on the presence of a weapon).
It seems to be that most are complaining about the increased penalties for those who are convicted of domestic violence offenses and are then caught with a firearm. (Increased from misdemeanor to a felony).
That’s what is being touted as the “poison pill.”
“Check the stats. Gun accidents are almost non-existent with Concealed carry holders. People with little or no gun skills have many more accidents.”
Not in Arizona. It simply has not caused a problem. If it had, the news here would feature it every chance they got!
Truth is, there is almost no data available for accidental deaths or injuries involving guns. Lots for “gun violence” but that has nothing to do with what we’re talking about. Deaths involving accidents with guns are small in number and most of those involve KIDS getting hold of a loaded gun AT HOME. Nothing to do with concealed carry.
Been that way all week, it seems.
If you google gun accidents in Texas, you come up with a lot of individual accounts. I imagine just from the ones I have personally witnessed, plenty of them happen. And, most of those were under somewhat controlled conditions. Yet, they still happened. This includes the one death.
Of course, if the front part of the roof over my range could talk, it would have plenty of stories. I've replaced many of the panels due to bullet holes. The same goes for my shooting stations. I've replaced most of them over the years due to accidental discharges. I have no doubt that these same individuals that ventilated my shooting facilities by accident will also be exercising constitutional carry.
Hint: People carrying without a license are no more likely to pull a gun and start shooting than those WITH a license.
You conjure up a boogeyman that doesn’t exist. I’m ex-military. I’ve seen STUPID things done on a military gun range. With trained people.
Nor does a license mean folks are skilled with a gun. When I got my CCW in Arizona - before the law changed - the license required a person to FIRE at a range. Not to hit anything. Our more demanding instructor had us shoot at a man-sized target. From SEVEN FEET! One guy almost missed it with each shot - and he got his license.
But for the purposes of this discussion, is there any evidence anyone carrying without a license in the states where it is legal has accidentally shot someone while carrying without a license? I can’t find a single case.
One might exist, but certainly not in the numbers that would justify requiring a license. Because if the numbers DID exist, the pro-governmental control media and the government itself would be making sure EVERYONE knew about them!
Then the state of Texas is wasting a heck of a lot time teaching non-violent resolution during the LTC class. Perhaps you should enlighten them.
You conjure up a boogeyman that doesn’t exist. I’m ex-military. I’ve seen STUPID things done on a military gun range. With trained people.
Then, you can just imagine the things I've seen on a range with untrained people. Of course, many of those practicing constitutional carry will now be those same untrained people.
But for the purposes of this discussion, is there any evidence anyone carrying without a license in the states where it is legal has accidentally shot someone while carrying without a license? I can’t find a single case.
Why would geography matter? Untrained is untrained. Are you going to say that gun accidents never happen with untrained individuals? Your not looking very hard.
“Are you going to say that gun accidents never happen with untrained individuals? Your not looking very hard.”
Never said that. But gun accidents are not very well controlled by simply getting a license. Most classes do NOT involve extensive gun handling or even detailed gun safety. Heck, the classes I took in the MILITARY weren’t worth much, although they were far more detailed than any CCW license class I’ve heard about.
“Then the state of Texas is wasting a heck of a lot time teaching non-violent resolution during the LTC class. Perhaps you should enlighten them.”
Glad to. People are either willing to deescalate or not. If not, a 4-8 or even 16 hour class won’t change them.
Texas? You can take a 4 hour class online. Shooting normally takes 1 hour: “Whether you completed the class online or in-person, the shooting qualification is the same. 50 rounds total is shot from the 3 yard line back to the 15 yard line. It is not difficult and is a very basic qualification.”
Yeah. THAT will do SOOOOOO much for gun safety & deescalation!
Bottom line: You have NO statistical bases for claiming a CCW license reduces accidental shootings, but it is your reason to require government control.
Got it.
I've been a firearms instructor for decades. I've never seen licensed individuals shoot themselves in the leg, or in the chest and kill themselves. The untrained individuals weren't so lucky.
Along with drivers licenses and licenses for HAZMAT carriers, I can think of doctors, nurses, dentists, electricians, plumbers, etc.
Your answer indicates that you have no grasp of what our natural rights are. That's okay. I'll educate you. Our Western Civilization is built around the idea that humans are sovereign individuals. Sure, we've had our kings and tyrants, but throughout the ages and distinctions between slave and citizen that took centuries to overcome, but here we are, with a rich history of philosophy from Aristotle to Hobbes and Locke and numerous wars and struggles to bring to fruition a nation of self governing men who are, "equally free and independent" and having "certain inherent rights, of which, when they enter a state of society, they cannot by any compact deprive or divest their posterity; namely, the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety."
What are these certain inherent rights? The Declaration of Independence touts the three major categories and lists several usurpations against them in more detail, and the U.S. Constitution goes into even greater specificity in the Bill of Rights, which are a series of Amendments attached to the original document. These rights include, but are not limited to, Free Speech, the Right of Assembly, Freedom of exercising one's religion, Rights to a trial by jury, to not have our homes and stuff rifled through and searched, and amongst these various Amendments you will find one particular to Keeping and Bearing arms. As a Right. Not as a Liberty (meaning something that is allowed by the state), but as a full fledged natural Right.
Wherever you see the word "People" in this document, it is referring to us. We the People. And since "all men being free and independent" we have this right to keep and bear arms. No license necessary.
There. You are now informed. You're welcome.
So, you don't believe in drivers licences, or licences for professionals that have the potential to injure of kill you? That's interesting.
In referring to the "people," the people also have a natural right to keep you from harming them. We elect politicians and write laws to do just that.
It is as I feared. Your question indicates that you indeed have no grasp of natural rights. And that is your right.
the people also have a natural right to keep you from harming them.
Correct. It's the 2nd Amendment.
This was easy. Like shooting retarded fish in a barrel.
Yes some anecdotal “evidence”. With 100 million gun owners, accidental discharges aren’t as common as you make it out to be. So please provide statistics to back up your assertions. I do appreciate your part in educating the public and training concealed carry holders but I doubt you can provide any facts that constitutional carry will result in a mass increase in ADs and shootings...
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